LoOk_tOm vs GiveUAnxiety

[zosgan]

-I am okay lets him play azzy
-No re i am winning this game
-so gay
-Out of rythme

[look]

211111

[deleted_user0]

Hmm look tom won cuz he broke civ rules? Im not sure this result should be allowed regardless of what gua said. The casters should never have allowed this, they should enforce tournament rules. This is like asking for different maps and both players agreeing, but its not just about rthem, all other tournamemt players are involved too. This is very unfair...

[tedere12]

yeah but they were already 7 minutes into the game and besides this tourney has no reward and is just some fun games ( at least thats how I see it) so this shouldn't become a major issue

[gibson]

Hmm look tom won cuz he broke civ rules? Im not sure this result should be allowed regardless of what gua said. The casters should never have allowed this, they should enforce tournament rules. This is like asking for different maps and both players agreeing, but its not just about rthem, all other tournamemt players are involved too. This is very unfair...

its on the casters and players for not knowing the rules but what are you gonna do? Stop a game at 7 minutes when you realize it?

[JakeyBoyTH]

After 2 mins it's up to the players to agree to re.

[deleted_user0]

well yes, since its second chance i can understand that nobody, not even the players, really gives a fuck. but yes, @gibson even if its 15 minutes in, the game should be replayed. at least if there was any prize involved.

[rsy]

The 2 minute rule shouldn't be applied on the casters' decision. I understand not letting the players ask for a re after 2 mins. But at 7 mins most games aren't necessarily decided for one side either way so why not just let the casters decide whether to go for a re, especially in such a case where tournament rules are compromised. This should be a lesson for future big tourneys with prizes at stake.

Just my humble opinion it's up to esoc staff in the end tho

[Vinyanyérë]

Didn't realize this happened. I'm inclined to let the decision remain as is, but I'll confer with the tournament admins.

[Snuden]

I agree with Umeu, the last game should have been replayed.
The casters should have followed the rules.

I even went as far as to issue a yellow card to GUA for "Manipulation"

[deleted_user]

We are mortal; we are mortal! Luckily GUA absolved us of our fault by agreeing anyways. Of course it is not ideal but it is decided.

[deleted_user0]

nah, that's the whole point. GUA agreeing shouldnt make the decision binding since he's not the only one involved. It's a tournament, so there are not 2 players involved + the casters, but 8 players (more or less depending on the round) + casters. It's simply not fair if one match has the rules enforced, but the other doesnt. Another player can claim he wouldve won his series too if he wouldve been allowed to break civ rules. etc etc

i mean i get its just 2nd chance, but if the mistake isn't acknowledged and a solution or scenerio on how to deal with it presented, then nothing will be learned from it.

[deleted_user]

How is it not acknowledged? It is very acknowledged. I've acknowledged it - we've acknowledged it. It is acknowledged here, as we are typing to each other. What might qualify as an acceptable "solution" or "scenario" to you that deals with the issue? I understand my response appeared to trivialize the matter though that is the natural PR man in the media of me speaking and not an entire representation of what I would like to convey now.

It was and is an issue internally. It was the simple product of an understandably lax human error. The issue was identified at 7 minutes game time. Both players agreed then to continue and still the casters performed the correct damage control measure and yet insisted on a tournament admin's decision before resuming. A tournament admin was contacted and also made the decision to continue. That is that. It cannot be rectified more so than currently. The decision was and has been made.

Yes, we can learn from this in the future - namely, for all parties involved to be more familiar with tournament rules. It appears difficult to create a concrete response to such a situation - that is the nature and role of a tournament admin.

It is not ideal, I want to reemphasize that - but when both players and a tournament admin agree to continue at a game time that is largely considered too late to restart is it not rational to continue?

[deleted_user0]

How is it not acknowledged? It is very acknowledged. I've acknowledged it - we've acknowledged it. It is acknowledged here, as we are typing to each other. What might qualify as an acceptable "solution" or "scenario" to you that deals with the issue? I understand my response appeared to trivialize the matter though that is the natural PR man in the media of me speaking and not an entire representation of what I would like to convey now.

It was and is an issue internally. It was the simple product of an understandably lax human error. The issue was identified at 7 minutes game time. Both players agreed then to continue and still the casters performed the correct damage control measure and yet insisted on a tournament admin's decision before resuming. A tournament admin was contacted and also made the decision to continue. That is that. It cannot be rectified more so than currently. The decision was and has been made.

Yes, we can learn from this in the future - namely, for all parties involved to be more familiar with tournament rules. It appears difficult to create a concrete response to such a situation - that is the nature and role of a tournament admin.

It is not ideal, I want to reemphasize that - but when both players and a tournament admin agree to continue at a game time that is largely considered too late to restart is it not rational to continue?

Again, I would argue its not rational to continue, and the fact that you keep arguing that it is, leads to me questioning if the full extent of tbe situation is being understood by the people responsible. Im not saying this to sneer about mistakes made, as you said its done and gone now, but rather for the future. Mistakes can happen, but if you say that this time it was rational to continue when the mistake was identified, that means it should also be rational next time. But imo it isnt, because as i said, it doesnt just affect these two players but all players in the tournament. And a tournament is intended to have the same conditions for all players. Allowing exceptions such as these, even on an ad hoc basis, directly contradicts the idea of a tournament. Therefore, the conclusion should be, its sad this mistake happened, and while we can never prevent that it will not happen again, next time it happens, it should be handled differently.

[deleted_user]

It doesn't mean it is rational next time - this was a circumstantial scenario. The circumstances surrounding this led to what we believed was the correct decision at the time. I hope you and others can understand where we are coming from. It is unfortunate we came to this point at all but I stand wholeheartedly with the decisions made by the casters and the tournament admins. Perhaps we can discuss this issue further in a different avenue.

[sebnan12]

making drama about auch a thing shows how much time u got
#whocaresitssecchance

[deleted_user0]

It doesn't mean it is rational next time - this was a circumstantial scenario. The circumstances surrounding this led to what we believed was the correct decision at the time. I hope you and others can understand where we are coming from. It is unfortunate we came to this point at all but I stand wholeheartedly with the decisions made by the casters and the tournament admins. Perhaps we can discuss this issue further in a different avenue.

Well, thats where we disagree then. I dont know what a circumstantional scenario even means, because every scenario happens under circumstances. The only migitating circumstance is that its 2nd chance and ur basically saying nobody cares. Which is fine. I dont see why you cant say the situation was handled wrongly without diminishing the casters. Since there was no precedent and no script for this situation, their decision is understandable. But nonetheless wrong, if u have the integrity of your tournament in mind, that is.

[Kaiserklein]

Hmm look tom won cuz he broke civ rules? Im not sure this result should be allowed regardless of what gua said. The casters should never have allowed this, they should enforce tournament rules. This is like asking for different maps and both players agreeing, but its not just about rthem, all other tournamemt players are involved too. This is very unfair...

Casters are not here to enforce the rules tbh. They should do it if needed but it's not really their job. Tbh it's first to the players' to know the civ rules, they're the one playing after all. Here all 4 people in the lobby didn't realize anything, imo it's everyone's fault there.
Btw yeah it should imo have been a rehost regardless of what gua said, but it was a sensitive decision to take after 7 min of game + gua saying he's fine with it, so they had to wait for an admin, and the admin (Chrisie) said the game should be played, so that's not anymore the casters' responsibility

[deleted_user0]

im not talking about this to blame anyone tbh. I never said it's the casters fault or responsibility.

I see your point about casters, but now that ESOC is trying to control who casts (aka only esoc selected casters are allowed), and casters are supposed to check mapscrews etc, I think it's fair to say that the casters are the esoc referees when they are present. So if you look at it like that, esoc casters should also know the rules. But yes, players are also responsible in the end, but at the same time, they may try to exploit this for their benefit. Try to select a civ twice, and when they get caught jsut say oh i didnt know. Not saying that's what happened, but it can happen. That's why the admins have the final say, and they should realise their decision doesnt just influence this match but the entire tournament

[aligator92]

I understand the decision the casters and chrisie made since GUA and the chat were pressuring to keep going
But I also agree with umeu that the rules need to be protected 2nd or not
So can we just add a rule to the rule book that clearly states that any match has to be restarted at any point if somebody realizes that a rule has been broken? So we can take pressure off casters, players and admins if such a situation comes up again.

Also I am shocked that players still do not know the rules. They are incredibly easy and hardly ever change. Civ restrictions have been the same since the very first ASC Spring in 2015 (with exception of otto and iro) and the counter picking system since ASC Winter 2015.

[look]

1. Umeu fuck u noob come to x1..
2. I call that before start game, just say you can't india... and I thought it could be used the same civilization against another match, regardless of the result.
3. A function of an administrator is to examine a rule, as well as determine rule overruns.. That may happen, as was the case .. if all involved players, caster, and admins of agreement, For a specific case like this, I see no problems, other players in the tournaments are not affected by this, so stop putting them in the subject ..

[loloekie10]

Sit down Umeu!

[Hazza54321]

"Road to 3rd chance finals"

[deleted_user0]

1. Umeu fuck u noob come to x1..
2. I call that before start game, just say you can't india... and I thought it could be used the same civilization against another match, regardless of the result.
3. A function of an administrator is to examine a rule, as well as determine rule overruns.. That may happen, as was the case .. if all involved players, caster, and admins of agreement, For a specific case like this, I see no problems, other players in the tournaments are not affected by this, so stop putting them in the subject ..

you are absolutely retarded...

[Snuden]

Not necessarily retarded, more like a product of his environment.
You cant really expect people who grew up in chaos and corruption to understand the importance of following simple rules.