Newest Edition of ESOC Patch Coming Soon!

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Re: Newest Edition of ESOC Patch Coming Soon!

Post by Hazza54321 »

forgrin wrote:Since everyone's doing this now I suppose I will too (not that anyone listens to me).


- Iroquois: +100f starting crates This could help their age 2 plays as it'd speed their ageup. It probably won't help their problems with eco relating to no market ups + lack of free tp from RE though. They'll probably still be trash tier aside from some niches against slow civs.
- Germans: Uhlans +5 HP A compromise I guess. I always felt it was the maps (and the existing meta) that made Germans strong on earlier patches, not ulhans, but if people need a near-meaningless nerf to feel better then sure, why not.
- Portuguese: 85f vills lol k. I highly doubt this will have any noticeable effect other than maybe delaying their ageup a few seconds.
- Ottomans: Mosque villager upgrades halved in cost I don't play enough otto to know, but I assume this will be pointless in 1v1. If you get to the point where you need a mosque, you've probably lost already.
- Dutch: Bank cost changed from 300w/350f to 350w/300f The dutch balance seesaw continues. It'll probably restore them to a niche non-tp map pick. It's a shame this was the chosen change, there seem to be much better alternatives.
- Russians: Restored 270f vill batches It will probably be fine as they're decent against the current meta, but the change made them so nice... :(
- French: +100f, 125f cdb So basically this is +60f before age 2. It'll make their age 1 better which will probably be enough to get people back to the civ.
- Removed CIR change Probably a nerf to Ports and Dutch but nobody else will notice.

Sioux
- 4v -> 5v
- Teepee HP changed to 800
- Teepee aura range increased by 50%
- Teepees now have a gather rate bonus of 4% per teepee with a max of 20% per villager
- Infantry can now build teepees
- Changed aggressive policy card to increase gather rate bonus to 6%
This needs testing before anyone says anything about it.

Team changes
- Thoroughbreds train time effect removed Good nerf.
- Mass cavalry church tech cost increased to 600c, effect increased to 40% Ewwww
- Genitours from +5 range to +4 range Fair enough.
- "Way of the bow" card HP effect removed OK
- Team 5 urumi -> 4 urumi A cost increase might have been better honestly. To me at least, -2 urumi won't make much difference in 2v2 and it's not really relevant in 3v3 anyways.
- Remove team schooners ok...?
- "Bakufu" home-city shipment Daimyo & Shogun training-rate effect decreased from 100% to 50%. Did someone on the patch team get dayimo lamed recently?

nah someone on the patch team did daiymo laming xD
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Re: Newest Edition of ESOC Patch Coming Soon!

Post by Hazza54321 »

and we are still gonna see many Ep ports EleGiggles in the meantime
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Re: Newest Edition of ESOC Patch Coming Soon!

Post by momuuu »

The daimyo change seems off. I never see the 'laming' so maybe first let people do it before you nerf it or something. It's really sad that japan got a nerf again without a compensating buff. The lategame nerf they need is golden pavilion not scaling off of normal stats because thats insane. Or golden pavilion effect reduced. And then something in exchange.
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Re: Newest Edition of ESOC Patch Coming Soon!

Post by KINGofOsmane »

yea sure nerf japan coz we saw japan so often in the finals and semis.
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Re: Newest Edition of ESOC Patch Coming Soon!

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Post by lemmings121 »

The thing that bothers me the most is the sioux change, not that it will be imba but because just absolutely changes the civ.

The "EP goal" in the start was making a game "like re, but more balanced", with small changes. Even giving sioux steel traps was refused because it would be "too different from re", but now teepees are mini karnimatas. like, wtf. ep should be a balance patch, not a game mod.
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Re: Newest Edition of ESOC Patch Coming Soon!

Post by Atomiswave »

- Iroquois: +100f starting crates - Ok
- Germans: Uhlans +5 HP - Ger back re status, which means they will again be very strong if not the strongest.
- Portuguese: 85f vills Doesn't change much, I would prefer 90f vills.
- Ottomans: Mosque villager upgrades halved in cost - Welcome change, but still doesn't resolve fundamental Otto problems.
- Dutch: Bank cost changed from 300w/350f to 350w/300f - It shouldn't be so bad as ppl say, Dutch still retain more xp for banks buff and have 5 bank limit.
- Russians: Restored 270f vill batches - Bad, Russia back to re status, which means they will suck balls again. -15f for vills gave them at least some smootness in BO's. Not they even lost that only redeeming factor.
- French: +100f, 125f cdb - It almost reverts France to re status. Like ger, they will be top civ like before.

- Removed CIR change - Ok

Sioux
- 4v -> 5v
- Teepee HP changed to 800
- Teepee aura range increased by 50%
- Teepees now have a gather rate bonus of 4% per teepee with a max of 20% per villager
- Infantry can now build teepees
- Changed aggressive policy card to increase gather rate bonus to 6%

Sounds too strong altogether.


Team changes
- Thoroughbreds train time effect removed - Ok
- Mass cavalry church tech cost increased to 600c, effect increased to 40% - Ok, but not needed.
- Genitours from +5 range to +4 range - Ok
- "Way of the bow" card HP effect removed - Ok, yumi needed some kind of nerf.
- Team 5 urumi -> 4 urumi - Ok
- Remove team schooners - Ok
- "Bakufu" home-city shipment Daimyo & Shogun training-rate effect decreased from 100% to 50%. - Ok

What we got in this patch is return of France and Germany to former glory, with exception of Sioux, which i really need to see in action in order to rate properly. One thing that worries me is India. I was expecting small buff for them. I fear they will be bad in this patch.....
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Re: Newest Edition of ESOC Patch Coming Soon!

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Post by lemmings121 »

btw, there is a couple needed "bug fixes" that shouldn't be left behind imo:
1- aztec WC bug
2- natives from treasures having 0,5x vs vills. (and possibly removing the bonus vs cav, atm india cant play arkansas because there is always a toma treasure, so you always lose the game in age one)
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Re: Newest Edition of ESOC Patch Coming Soon!

Post by Atomiswave »

lemmings121 wrote:The thing that bothers me the most is the sioux change, not that it will be imba but because just absolutely changes the civ.

The "EP goal" in the start was making a game "like re, but more balanced", with small changes. Even giving sioux steel traps was refused because it would be "too different from re", but now teepees are mini karnimatas. like, wtf. ep should be a balance patch, not a game mod.


Yeah, we will surely see walling bases with tepees in this patch. It could prove to be very powerful even game breaking.
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Re: Newest Edition of ESOC Patch Coming Soon!

Post by tedere12 »

sioux dont have walls tho
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Re: Newest Edition of ESOC Patch Coming Soon!

Post by ListlessSalmon »

Realistically the choices for Sioux are to remove them from the game or redesign them. This redesign seems interesting so I think I prefer this idea. Giving them an eco buff through a unique building of theirs rather than giving them a euro upgrade seems sensible also.

It also doesn't seem like an enormous buff. 250 wood for a 20% eco boost over a pretty small area (even with the buff) isn't that huge. Assuming they gather substantially more food than coin/wood (I believe they are quite food heavy, could be wrong though, I know axe riders are I forget the rest) it isn't even that much better of a deal than steal traps is for euro civs even assuming you gather in the aura radius forever. And the upgrade card is never better than eco theory.
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Re: Newest Edition of ESOC Patch Coming Soon!

Post by Omkar_Satapathy »

I never like such balancing patches made by individuals like fan patch, ESOC patch, improvement mod, enhancement mod. They unbalance the game and actually take the fun out of game instead of making it better. Why don't you understand, the game must have been made by team of hundreds of people and they have already worked hard to make it balanced. Why do you guys need to make your individual balancing?
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Re: Newest Edition of ESOC Patch Coming Soon!

Post by DaRkNiTe1698 »

Jerom wrote:
DaRkNiTe1698 wrote:
Show hidden quotes
Dutch was too strong...

The last serious interaction I had was me destroying your dutch with a random civ I sucked at because the civ is that shitty.

Every patch started out with 'dutch is definitely OP' (even ep1.0) and every time I thought people might be sorta right and they might be sorta fine. After RE and EP1.0 it turned out they were still unplayable. After EP2.0 my opinion of dutch was influenced by the community again, but in the end after playing tons of games as then and watching their performance in the tournament I dont get how you could conclude dutch is anywhere above average. A competent player is going to abuse their weaknesses properly. And even if you dont, their fortress isnt really that strong.

As on ep2.0, they lose to at least spain, british, aztec, russia. Germany is going to rape them again and they might have still been favored against dutch. Japan is a hard match up, china is hard to win, ports is honestly a rough match up, india is surprisingly hard, otto can really give you a hard time. The only 'easy' mu they had was vs france and due to this change theyre going to lose that again. Oh and dutch was one of the worst civs against iro and sioux so if those are buffed properly dutch is probably their victim. Theres not one easy win left after this patch, if theres mus they win at all, and there are many terrible match ups. I dont understand the logic behind the nerf.. Why did you nerf an average civ? Just because of team players? Why did you not take out the 5th bank which is pretty close to irrelevant in 1v1?
You "destroyed" me because I rarely play dutch and I am not good at it, not because its a bad civ. I played vs lordraphael some times and I can assure you it's not a bad civ as you describe. It's not only that you have 1 bank more, but banks are cheaper and that's huge. Try to play vs LordRaphael's dutch and tell me later if its an average civ. I can understand it's your favourite civ, but the finalists did play it many times, as concrete proof it's a very strong civ
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Re: Newest Edition of ESOC Patch Coming Soon!

Post by pecelot »

KINGofOsmane wrote:yea sure nerf japan coz we saw japan so often in the finals and semis.

That doesn't have to be an appropriate indicator, plus I'm not sure whether the proposed changes affect Japan so directly in 1v1s. I think they balance their gameplay in areas they just scale too well, which is fair :!:

lemmings121 wrote:The thing that bothers me the most is the sioux change, not that it will be imba but because just absolutely changes the civ.

The "EP goal" in the start was making a game "like re, but more balanced", with small changes. Even giving sioux steel traps was refused because it would be "too different from re", but now teepees are mini karnimatas. like, wtf. ep should be a balance patch, not a game mod.

They could have reached a conclusion that it's not possibly to make that particular civilisation „playable" with minor balance tweaks. I heard it a lot of times, similar approach was taken in the Treaty Patch.

tedere12 wrote:sioux dont have walls tho

Atomiswave wrote:Yeah, we will surely see walling bases with tepees in this patch.

:hmm:

Omkar_Satapathy wrote:I never like such balancing patches made by individuals like fan patch, ESOC patch, improvement mod, enhancement mod. They unbalance the game and actually take the fun out of game instead of making it better. Why don't you understand, the game must have been made by team of hundreds of people and they have already worked hard to make it balanced. Why do you guys need to make your individual balancing?

Improvement Mod is not focused that much on inter-civ balance. Additionally, you're wrong, all of unfortunate. Being an official game developer doesn't mean you know everything the best.
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Re: Newest Edition of ESOC Patch Coming Soon!

Post by momuuu »

Omkar_Satapathy wrote:I never like such balancing patches made by individuals like fan patch, ESOC patch, improvement mod, enhancement mod. They unbalance the game and actually take the fun out of game instead of making it better. Why don't you understand, the game must have been made by team of hundreds of people and they have already worked hard to make it balanced. Why do you guys need to make your individual balancing?

Those hundreds of people sure did a good job!
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Re: Newest Edition of ESOC Patch Coming Soon!

Post by fightinfrenchman »

pecelot wrote:
fightinfrenchman wrote:I agree with the change to the Dutch

Could you kindly give us an explanation of this thought-process?


Banks are simply OP and should take longer to get
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Re: Newest Edition of ESOC Patch Coming Soon!

Post by KINGofOsmane »

thats why nobody plays them @pecegod
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Re: Newest Edition of ESOC Patch Coming Soon!

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Post by edeholland »

Omkar_Satapathy wrote:I never like such balancing patches made by individuals like fan patch, ESOC patch, improvement mod, enhancement mod. They unbalance the game and actually take the fun out of game instead of making it better. Why don't you understand, the game must have been made by team of hundreds of people and they have already worked hard to make it balanced. Why do you guys need to make your individual balancing?


Why do you promote a mod in your sig :hmm: The graphics have been made by hundreds of people and they worked hard to make it beautiful
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Re: Newest Edition of ESOC Patch Coming Soon!

Post by momuuu »

The way of the bow nerf is pretty significant in 1v1 pecelot.
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Re: Newest Edition of ESOC Patch Coming Soon!

Post by Omkar_Satapathy »

pecelot wrote:
Omkar_Satapathy wrote:I never like such balancing patches made by individuals like fan patch, ESOC patch, improvement mod, enhancement mod. They unbalance the game and actually take the fun out of game instead of making it better. Why don't you understand, the game must have been made by team of hundreds of people and they have already worked hard to make it balanced. Why do you guys need to make your individual balancing?

Improvement Mod is not focused that much on inter-civ balance. Additionally, you're wrong, all of unfortunate. Being an official game developer doesn't mean you know everything the best.

You can read it's patch notes, improvement mod attempts to balance the game in its own way.
I agree nobody knows everything, why are you guys pretending to know everything?
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Re: Newest Edition of ESOC Patch Coming Soon!

Post by Omkar_Satapathy »

edeholland wrote:
Omkar_Satapathy wrote:I never like such balancing patches made by individuals like fan patch, ESOC patch, improvement mod, enhancement mod. They unbalance the game and actually take the fun out of game instead of making it better. Why don't you understand, the game must have been made by team of hundreds of people and they have already worked hard to make it balanced. Why do you guys need to make your individual balancing?


Why do you promote a mod in your sig :hmm: The graphics have been made by hundreds of people and they worked hard to make it beautiful

If you wish I will remove it.
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Re: Newest Edition of ESOC Patch Coming Soon!

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Post by Kaiserklein »

sdsanft wrote:- Iroquois: +100f starting crates
I hope they don't become lame again, what is the difference with RE now ?

- Germans: Uhlans +5 HP
Well I'm too lazy to calculate, but it depends on which units now need 1 more hit to kill uhlans. But probs a decent change. At least now you won't be afraid to lose cav wars vs huss (which made no sense since your bonus is to have extra cav)

- Portuguese: 85f vills
I think 90f would be better but we'll see

- Ottomans: Mosque villager upgrades halved in cost
Useless change, the vil training one is still not worth getting, and you mostly don't reach the vil limit (or if you do you most likely lost the game anyway)

- Dutch: Bank cost changed from 300w/350f to 350w/300f
I would have rather liked to nerf the xp. Yesterday I was casting india vs dutch, india had 8 lamas, dutch made 4 banks, and dutch was ahead by 1 shipment lol. It's insane. 300w was nice for smooth builds.

- Russians: Restored 270f vill batches
Good

- French: +100f, 125f cdb
Good

- Removed CIR change
Viri good

I mostly like the changes, even if I'm disappointed by otto and dutch.

sdsanft wrote:Sioux
- 4v -> 5v
- Teepee HP changed to 800
- Teepee aura range increased by 50%
- Teepees now have a gather rate bonus of 4% per teepee with a max of 20% per villager
- Infantry can now build teepees
- Changed aggressive policy card to increase gather rate bonus to 6%

Wtf ? So while an euro civ pays 100w + 50w 50g + 75w 75f + 100f to get tier 1 market upgrades, which is the equivalent of 375w or so and gives +10% gathering to all vils, Sioux can now spend only 250w and get +20% for all vils ??? And yeah it's only in a given aura, but around your tc you have resources until at least 10 min in the game on a standard EP map, and also it buffs units as well lol.........

A teepee costs 50w, which is 100 VS. Let's say you have 25 vils (which you now should have early in the game because you're going to ship 5 vils lol). 4% bonus on 25 vils is 1 vil, and 1 vil needs 100 seconds to gather 50w. I mean, training a vil pays off in 120s lol, so building teepees when you have 25 vils pays off even faster than training vils rofl. There is no boom in the game cheaper than training vils (banks, manors, shrines etc all need longer than vils to pay off), except schooners water boom but you need to ship a card and pay for the docks. This boom is like, not even a boom, it's just something you're going to do every game, because it pays off so fast. Just like you train vils every game, you're going to make teepees every game.
AND you also buff your units nearby, which means that it's gonna be really hard to try and punish this greedy style by pushing sioux base. And when you reach more than 25 vils it of course becomes even better. And yes, you will deplete the food in your base fast, but sioux can even get some extra bisons in their base lol.

Just imagine a semi ff with some BRs and Cetan bows in 5 teepees (250w investment) with +20% gathering rate on all your vils, wtf ?
And on top of that, as though it was not enough, the teepees now tank 800 hp (2/3 of a house) so you can't even try to siege them down fast. They also have more aura, and you don't even need to use vils to build them. It's insane, makes no sense.

Also I have a question : does the aura affect vils on their base gathering stats, or on their current gathering stats ? Because if it stacks (like the HP aura does) with market/hc upgrades, it's even more broken.


sdsanft wrote:Team changes
- Thoroughbreds train time effect removed
ok

- Mass cavalry church tech cost increased to 600c, effect increased to 40%
ok

- Genitours from +5 range to +4 range
Viri good

- "Way of the bow" card HP effect removed
What do you mean by "team change" here ? I mean, it's also gonna work in 1v1 right ? It's a card I used to ship basically every time I was age 3 with japan. But if you only get +2 range, while yeomen for example gives +4 range to longbows as well as unlocking guard/imp upgrades, it's really shit honestly. Would rather have the age 2 card nerfed from 20% attack to 15%, for example.

- Team 5 urumi -> 4 urumi
Viri good

- Remove team schooners
Viri good

- "Bakufu" home-city shipment Daimyo & Shogun training-rate effect decreased from 100% to 50%.
Not sure anyone gave a shit about this shipment ? Maybe I'm wrong
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Re: Newest Edition of ESOC Patch Coming Soon!

Post by Atomiswave »

tedere12 wrote:sioux dont have walls tho


Ofc they don't. I didn't said they have walls. I was referring to tepees as aid to Sioux defense. With improved aura range, more hp and hp boost ability they will become good defensive structure if you manage to fight in range of them.
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Re: Newest Edition of ESOC Patch Coming Soon!

Post by pecelot »

KINGofOsmane wrote:thats why nobody plays them @pecegod

You play them all the time!

fightinfrenchman wrote:
pecelot wrote:
fightinfrenchman wrote:I agree with the change to the Dutch

Could you kindly give us an explanation of this thought-process?


Banks are simply OP and should take longer to get

Why are they OP?

Jerom wrote:The way of the bow nerf is pretty significant in 1v1 pecelot.

Aren't yumi a bit over the top anyways? :hmm:

Omkar_Satapathy wrote:
edeholland wrote:
Omkar_Satapathy wrote:I never like such balancing patches made by individuals like fan patch, ESOC patch, improvement mod, enhancement mod. They unbalance the game and actually take the fun out of game instead of making it better. Why don't you understand, the game must have been made by team of hundreds of people and they have already worked hard to make it balanced. Why do you guys need to make your individual balancing?


Why do you promote a mod in your sig :hmm: The graphics have been made by hundreds of people and they worked hard to make it beautiful

If you wish I will remove it.

I'm pretty sure it was sarcastic.

Omkar_Satapathy wrote:
pecelot wrote:
Omkar_Satapathy wrote:I never like such balancing patches made by individuals like fan patch, ESOC patch, improvement mod, enhancement mod. They unbalance the game and actually take the fun out of game instead of making it better. Why don't you understand, the game must have been made by team of hundreds of people and they have already worked hard to make it balanced. Why do you guys need to make your individual balancing?

Improvement Mod is not focused that much on inter-civ balance. Additionally, you're wrong, all of unfortunate. Being an official game developer doesn't mean you know everything the best.

You can read it's patch notes, improvement mod attempts to balance the game in its own way.
I agree nobody knows everything, why are you guys pretending to know everything?

Though I wouldn't say it's a balance patch per se.
Who should know game mechanics best if not the best players?
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Re: Newest Edition of ESOC Patch Coming Soon!

Post by Omkar_Satapathy »

pecelot wrote:
Omkar_Satapathy wrote:
Show hidden quotes

If you wish I will remove it.

I'm pretty sure it was sarcastic.


If you guys don't like it tell me I will surely remove that signature.
pecelot wrote:
Omkar_Satapathy wrote:
Show hidden quotes

You can read it's patch notes, improvement mod attempts to balance the game in its own way.
I agree nobody knows everything, why are you guys pretending to know everything?

Though I wouldn't say it's a balance patch per se.
Who should know game mechanics best if not the best players?

Who said nobody knows everything? Isn't that you? Adding features is good(for example ESOC patch gives new maps to play with) but who are you to remove something(removing cards and their original effect to your own will)?
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Re: Newest Edition of ESOC Patch Coming Soon!

Post by fightinfrenchman »

pecelot wrote:
fightinfrenchman wrote:
Show hidden quotes


Banks are simply OP and should take longer to get

Why are they OP?


For a more in-depth answer ask the patch team, who actually made the change.

Furthermore, I think it's a bit sad to see the community being so negative about something ESOC provides for free! :uglylol:
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