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European Union Interjection
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07 Mar 2017, 20:21

Nice changes, I'll make a video!
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Mozambique SenorCallen
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09 Mar 2017, 00:54

isnt there a team that should test these changes instead of throwing a bunch of shit together and hope it works
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Switzerland sebnan12
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09 Mar 2017, 01:10

why are the changes a bunch of shit? like u people seem to fuking forget they(esoc staff) dont get paid for the work their doing.. 99% of this community expects things from esoc without even apreciate anything.. and the other 1 % is aizamk.. makes me sad rlly.. did one of u play the patch yet or are u all able to watch into future to know the changes are bad?
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Australia wardyb1
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09 Mar 2017, 04:18

Any rough estimates for when the patch will go live?
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Netherlands Mr_Bramboy
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09 Mar 2017, 06:45

sebnan12 wrote:why are the changes a bunch of shit? like u people seem to fuking forget they(esoc staff) dont get paid for the work their doing.. 99% of this community expects things from esoc without even apreciate anything.. and the other 1 % is aizamk.. makes me sad rlly.. did one of u play the patch yet or are u all able to watch into future to know the changes are bad?

When sebnan makes a sensible post, you know the thread has deteriorated a lot.
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New Zealand JakeyBoyTH
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09 Mar 2017, 06:59

SenorCallen wrote:isnt there a team that should test these changes instead of throwing a bunch of shit together and hope it works


> Making assumptions the EP team don't test anything
> Making assumptions the EP team don't know the game well
> Making assumptions the EP team can't update the patch ever
> Implying anyone else can do better
Image
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Hungary Dsy
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09 Mar 2017, 17:34

sdsanft wrote:Image

- Iroquois: +100f starting crates
- Germans: Uhlans +5 HP - You could make it 190 then. Its kinda pointless to give them 185 health.
- Portuguese: 85f vills
- Ottomans: Mosque villager upgrades halved in cost - i like it.
- Dutch: Bank cost changed from 300w/350f to 350w/300f
- Russians: Restored 270f vill batches
- French: +100f, 125f cdb

- Removed CIR change - it was one of the best change in the game, it brought artillery back to game, i really dislike this

Sioux - its new dont know the effects but siux need rework so i support changes.
- 4v -> 5v
- Teepee HP changed to 800
- Teepee aura range increased by 50%
- Teepees now have a gather rate bonus of 4% per teepee with a max of 20% per villager
- Infantry can now build teepees
- Changed aggressive policy card to increase gather rate bonus to 6%

Team changes
- Thoroughbreds train time effect removed
- Mass cavalry church tech cost increased to 600c, effect increased to 40% - no reason to do this. i like much more when cav and inf has same train time upgrades
- Genitours from +5 range to +4 range
- "Way of the bow" card HP effect removed
- Team 5 urumi -> 4 urumi
- Remove team schooners
- "Bakufu" home-city shipment Daimyo & Shogun training-rate effect decreased from 100% to 50%.

Germany GonzoPunchi
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10 Mar 2017, 11:48

Why aren't there any changes to China? I feel like it is the worst civ. Way to weak colonial to defend against any aggression.
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Brazil lemmings121
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10 Mar 2017, 13:58

GonzoPunchi wrote:Why aren't there any changes to China? I feel like it is the worst civ. Way to weak colonial to defend against any aggression.

I dont agree.. if you go naked ff, yea, you 'might' lose to a all in rush, but china has a decent colonial play that should be able to hold any agression...
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10 Mar 2017, 14:11

lemmings121 wrote:
GonzoPunchi wrote:Why aren't there any changes to China? I feel like it is the worst civ. Way to weak colonial to defend against any aggression.

I dont agree.. if you go naked ff, yea, you 'might' lose to a all in rush, but china has a decent colonial play that should be able to hold any agression...

try holding iro bb rush with 5 min ageup
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Brazil lemmings121
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10 Mar 2017, 14:21

tedere12 wrote:
lemmings121 wrote:
GonzoPunchi wrote:Why aren't there any changes to China? I feel like it is the worst civ. Way to weak colonial to defend against any aggression.

I dont agree.. if you go naked ff, yea, you 'might' lose to a all in rush, but china has a decent colonial play that should be able to hold any agression...

try holding iro bb rush with 5 min ageup


we talking about a re game in broken gp, or this is the ep forum..?
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10 Mar 2017, 14:24

pretty sure its the same on ep! 4 cav in your base sub 5 and you cant do anything
#FreeTheCheese
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No Flag ovi12
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10 Mar 2017, 15:00

tedere12 wrote:pretty sure its the same on ep! 4 cav in your base sub 5 and you cant do anything

You can easily get out mm if you really need. If he is far enough in your base to bother you, he is probably far enough to get his whole army trapped by both mm.
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Netherlands Goodspeed
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10 Mar 2017, 15:01

To the people who brought up the point that the Sioux changes are against patch policy, that is a valid point and one I should've addressed. The thing with Sioux is that they were an exception to this rule, kind of like Otto, in that they lacked options to such an extent that they were almost impossible to balance without drastic changes. Then the teepee rework was an "in for a penny, in for a pound" type of deal. A bonus is that it might attract a bigger audience of players who want the civ/game to be changed.

Also, this is indeed an open beta of sorts. In fact the patch is continuously in open beta, with a no-change period during tournaments. In other words if certain changes turn out bad we can still tweak or undo them before the tournament.
So I hope you will all play the patch and report your findings. Preferably with recs. viewforum.php?f=159

Thanks for all of your input :flowers:
Whether or not it is clear to you, no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should.
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Netherlands Jerom
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10 Mar 2017, 15:12

I don't dislike the sioux change, although I think similair results could be obtained by just buffing the 6 cetan bow shipment and the 4v-> 5v. As of now I'm afraid that both TP rework (this is an amazing eco boost) and 4 vills -> 5 vills is a bit much. I actually don't know if the teepee eco boost is going to scale off of base stats, but if it doesn't its insane. It's really great regardless, you get a possibility to invest in a 20% eco boost for all resources by investing just 250 wood (a tepee is 50w right?). We're talking about something that is better than refrigeration and royal mint combined.

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Netherlands Goodspeed
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10 Mar 2017, 15:16

Whether it is or isn't too strong remains to be seen.
Whether or not it is clear to you, no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should.
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Italy Garja
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10 Mar 2017, 15:17

Ye dunno who made the math but basically Sioux can consistently do builds with 5 teepees, TP and market. That combined with no houses required makes their eco comparable to the French one. And that's insane for a TWC civ, especially since unlike iros they are far from being a complex civ to play.
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Finland somppukunkku
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10 Mar 2017, 15:19

Jerom wrote:I don't dislike the sioux change, although I think similair results could be obtained by just buffing the 6 cetan bow shipment and the 4v-> 5v. As of now I'm afraid that both TP rework (this is an amazing eco boost) and 4 vills -> 5 vills is a bit much. I actually don't know if the teepee eco boost is going to scale off of base stats, but if it doesn't its insane. It's really great regardless, you get a possibility to invest in a 20% eco boost for all resources by investing just 250 wood (a tepee is 50w right?). We're talking about something that is better than refrigeration and royal mint combined.


That's an awful comparison. Sioux is missing 2nd market upgrades AND you can't really rebuild teepees to every gold mine/hunt...It's going to only help for hunts in base and 1 gold mine. I think sioux could be OK now.
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United States of America __Uhlan__
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10 Mar 2017, 15:25

somppukunkku wrote:
Jerom wrote:I don't dislike the sioux change, although I think similair results could be obtained by just buffing the 6 cetan bow shipment and the 4v-> 5v. As of now I'm afraid that both TP rework (this is an amazing eco boost) and 4 vills -> 5 vills is a bit much. I actually don't know if the teepee eco boost is going to scale off of base stats, but if it doesn't its insane. It's really great regardless, you get a possibility to invest in a 20% eco boost for all resources by investing just 250 wood (a tepee is 50w right?). We're talking about something that is better than refrigeration and royal mint combined.


That's an awful comparison. Sioux is missing 2nd market upgrades AND you can't really rebuild teepees to every gold mine/hunt...It's going to only help for hunts in base and 1 gold mine. I think sioux could be OK now.


A map like Kamchatka (very popular tourney map) you have 3 hunts & 2 mines now 20% increased eco until around 10mins when everything runs out seems pretty good to me not OK. Would create a pretty insane fortress timing. Or Br/Axe age 2 combo.
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Finland somppukunkku
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10 Mar 2017, 15:46

__Uhlan__ wrote:
somppukunkku wrote:
Jerom wrote:I don't dislike the sioux change, although I think similair results could be obtained by just buffing the 6 cetan bow shipment and the 4v-> 5v. As of now I'm afraid that both TP rework (this is an amazing eco boost) and 4 vills -> 5 vills is a bit much. I actually don't know if the teepee eco boost is going to scale off of base stats, but if it doesn't its insane. It's really great regardless, you get a possibility to invest in a 20% eco boost for all resources by investing just 250 wood (a tepee is 50w right?). We're talking about something that is better than refrigeration and royal mint combined.


That's an awful comparison. Sioux is missing 2nd market upgrades AND you can't really rebuild teepees to every gold mine/hunt...It's going to only help for hunts in base and 1 gold mine. I think sioux could be OK now.


A map like Kamchatka (very popular tourney map) you have 3 hunts & 2 mines now 20% increased eco until around 10mins when everything runs out seems pretty good to me not OK. Would create a pretty insane fortress timing. Or Br/Axe age 2 combo.

I think teepee base range is really awful so it doesn't work on both mines + you need to herd very well. They start less vills than euro civs.
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Italy Garja
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10 Mar 2017, 16:04

The thing is that teepee range post patch is about the same as karni mata range so all 5 teepees are going to cover inbase resources entirely.
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Brazil lemmings121
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10 Mar 2017, 16:13

thanks for the response @Goodspeed that was me.

@every_one_else:
imo this change is big enough that requires a lot (lot) of games before anyone can say its too strong or not. Its not like a %change in something that we know, but instead a whole new concept that will require new builds and adaptation. So imho, everyone that is atm saying it will be too strong or too weak its just tossing a coin. lets play and see how it goes. And I like that GS said "if it proves to be broken, we can make an emergency patch to remove it before tournament".
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United States of America Darwin_
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10 Mar 2017, 16:18

I think sioux just could have been fixed without a rework. Like I think they would be ok with steel traps and maybe an extra starting vill or an extra wood crate. Maybe even change cetan bow cost to 100f, or increase wakina speed. Also 4v -> 5v as well but that might be way too good.
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Netherlands Jerom
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10 Mar 2017, 16:31

Goodspeed wrote:Whether it is or isn't too strong remains to be seen.

Indeed, however if you look at the effect that is proposed and the amount of balance testing done this seems extremely risky.

"When life give you incompetence, participate in the betting" - Jerom, winner of autumn betting, 2016
"but wer eyiu playig a gainst someone as magnificent as jerom? thats wha ti thogutb jerom is a beaaitful human being"- Mr_Bramboy
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Germany yemshi
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10 Mar 2017, 16:58

tedere12 wrote:
lemmings121 wrote:
GonzoPunchi wrote:Why aren't there any changes to China? I feel like it is the worst civ. Way to weak colonial to defend against any aggression.

I dont agree.. if you go naked ff, yea, you 'might' lose to a all in rush, but china has a decent colonial play that should be able to hold any agression...

try holding iro bb rush with 5 min ageup

Try holding iro.
Garja wrote: Players on the RE are bad, laggers and they're lazy asses that would sell their mother for a couple of Elo points. It's not just my opinion, it's a fact (which I guess is the same thing, hence your confusion) that the EP is better.

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