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Poland pecelot
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10 Mar 2017, 21:20

Darwin_ wrote:I think sioux just could have been fixed without a rework. Like I think they would be ok with steel traps and maybe an extra starting vill or an extra wood crate. Maybe even change cetan bow cost to 100f, or increase wakina speed. Also 4v -> 5v as well but that might be way too good.

I guess adding Steel Traps is pretty drastic, so it would still be a rework in a way, given that none of the TWC civs has it. I don't think they'd ever need an additional wood crate, they already save tons of wood on houses.
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United States of America Darwin_
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10 Mar 2017, 21:32

pecelot wrote:
Darwin_ wrote:I think sioux just could have been fixed without a rework. Like I think they would be ok with steel traps and maybe an extra starting vill or an extra wood crate. Maybe even change cetan bow cost to 100f, or increase wakina speed. Also 4v -> 5v as well but that might be way too good.

I guess adding Steel Traps is pretty drastic, so it would still be a rework in a way, given that none of the TWC civs has it. I don't think they'd ever need an additional wood crate, they already save tons of wood on houses.

I guess you could move the first food upgrade at the farm to the market instead (only 10% for 100w 75c). The extra wood crate would be so that they could have tp or market start.
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Poland pecelot
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10 Mar 2017, 21:39

They always can, they save 100 wood on a house in age 1 straight away :hmm:
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10 Mar 2017, 21:44

pecelot wrote:They always can, they save 100 wood on a house in age 1 straight away :hmm:

Then they will 16 vill and age up at like 5+ minutes.
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Poland pecelot
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10 Mar 2017, 22:39

What's the difference really from, let's say, Spain's market start? Sioux can use the fast age-up and have the WC to grab juicy treasures :!:
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10 Mar 2017, 23:04

pecelot wrote:What's the difference really from, let's say, Spain's market start? Sioux can use the fast age-up and have the WC to grab juicy treasures :!:

Well fast age up doesn't work because you have no shipment when you age, and your mass suffers b/c you have to chop for a corral. (btw I play sioux)
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Poland pecelot
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10 Mar 2017, 23:44

You mentioned chopping wood in age 1 for a TP, possibly — I guess then you could ship 700 wood first in age 2. Still, I guess aging with 400 wood is not terrible in such cases (market start)? (btw I don't care)
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Norway iwillspankyou
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12 Mar 2017, 12:17

Jerom wrote:
Goodspeed wrote:Whether it is or isn't too strong remains to be seen.

Indeed, however if you look at the effect that is proposed and the amount of balance testing done this seems extremely risky.


Its risky indeed - we could maybe expect that Sioux actually will be played in next tournament :P AND that they have some chance in keeping up, economically vice -what terrible prospects :shock: :shock: :shock: :uglylol:
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12 Mar 2017, 12:20

Garja wrote:Ye dunno who made the math but basically Sioux can consistently do builds with 5 teepees, TP and market. That combined with no houses required makes their eco comparable to the French one. And that's insane for a TWC civ, especially since unlike iros they are far from being a complex civ to play.


5 teepees, TP and marked cost 550 wood - that is before you make any use of that marked! Remind me again how much wood Sioux start with :huh:
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Norway iwillspankyou
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12 Mar 2017, 12:24

iwillspankyou wrote:
Garja wrote:Ye dunno who made the math but basically Sioux can consistently do builds with 5 teepees, TP and market. That combined with no houses required makes their eco comparable to the French one. And that's insane for a TWC civ, especially since unlike iros they are far from being a complex civ to play.



Also remind me how many times you played Sioux in last tournament, and while streaming games?? Then tell me why you DONT - and why :cry:

As far as Im concerned - Its been clear to everyone that the civs are not compatible - hence nobody played them in tournament! AND its high time the staff finally did something to try to change that :!:
Hippocrits are the worst of animals. I love elifants.
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Netherlands Jerom
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12 Mar 2017, 12:31

iwillspankyou wrote:
Jerom wrote:
Goodspeed wrote:Whether it is or isn't too strong remains to be seen.

Indeed, however if you look at the effect that is proposed and the amount of balance testing done this seems extremely risky.


Its risky indeed - we could maybe expect that Sioux actually will be played in next tournament :P AND that they have some chance in keeping up, economically vice -what terrible prospects :shock: :shock: :shock: :uglylol:

The other prospect might be that sioux is insane and every series has 2 sioux mirrors.

Im all for buffing sioux but this one is a little bit extreme to my taste.

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12 Mar 2017, 12:53

When is this patch going to be live?
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12 Mar 2017, 12:54

@Jerom said
The other prospect might be that sioux is insane and every series has 2 Sioux mirrors.


That would surprize me - lol
The changes are minor imo - I would really want some bigger changes being done. Saying Sioux now are being "overpowered" by these tiny changes are fear mongering into some fantacyland - thats my opinion anyway :huh:
What I do fear thought, is that the changes are to small, and we still will not see much of the Sioux being played.
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12 Mar 2017, 13:19

The changes are not minor. Its 20% gathering rate increase for 250w, thats an insane buff.

"When life give you incompetence, participate in the betting" - Jerom, winner of autumn betting, 2016
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Norway iwillspankyou
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12 Mar 2017, 13:35

Jerom wrote:The changes are not minor. Its 20% gathering rate increase for 250w, thats an insane buff.


Gathering rate are constricted to the teepees though! AND Sioux still dont have second upgrades on Marked - so I will still call them pretty minor!
When you take in consideration how BAD the eco was for baseline, it still is not OP in my opinion. BUT if you think it is, I hope you play Sioux next tournament.
IF you do that, and think they are OP cos you win your MUs - Then, and only Then will consider you have a point here :P
Hippocrits are the worst of animals. I love elifants.
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12 Mar 2017, 14:11

Sorry for the delay, folks. Patch is still being finished and there will actually be some adjustments to what was advertised in the OP.

Jerom wrote:The changes are not minor. Its 20% gathering rate increase for 250w, thats an insane buff.

The formula is 1.04^5 and the 20% limit won't be a thing, so it's actually a bit more.
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Italy DaRkNiTe1698
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12 Mar 2017, 21:01

EAGLEMUT wrote:Sorry for the delay, folks. Patch is still being finished and there will actually be some adjustments to what was advertised in the OP.

Jerom wrote:The changes are not minor. Its 20% gathering rate increase for 250w, thats an insane buff.

The formula is 1.04^5 and the 20% limit won't be a thing, so it's actually a bit more.
How long will it take yet ? I want to practise on new patch :)
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Netherlands Jerom
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12 Mar 2017, 21:06

iwillspankyou wrote:
Jerom wrote:The changes are not minor. Its 20% gathering rate increase for 250w, thats an insane buff.


Gathering rate are constricted to the teepees though! AND Sioux still dont have second upgrades on Marked - so I will still call them pretty minor!
When you take in consideration how BAD the eco was for baseline, it still is not OP in my opinion. BUT if you think it is, I hope you play Sioux next tournament.
IF you do that, and think they are OP cos you win your MUs - Then, and only Then will consider you have a point here :P

My point is that this eco boost is just about the strongest way to boost your eco in the entire game. It is objectively a huge buff. It doesnt matter that sioux doesnt have tier 2 market upgrades. This buff is just amazingly good. Sioux wasnt extremely bad imo, just barely not good enough and also not really fun to play.

Now all I am saying is that its risky, imo possibly too risky, to go with this buff. If it turns out too strong Id strongly consider banning sioux for the upcoming tournament. That wouldnt make you happy either, would it?

"When life give you incompetence, participate in the betting" - Jerom, winner of autumn betting, 2016
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12 Mar 2017, 21:18

@Jerom
We shall see - Im looking forward to tournament and hopefully we will see Sioux played again. :biggrin: Im not convinced we will thought :cry:
Banning Sioux if they are finally a bit stronger, would make me very dissatisfied - your right about that :mad:
Hippocrits are the worst of animals. I love elifants.
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12 Mar 2017, 21:45

If sioux are extremely OP then id definitely consider it.

"When life give you incompetence, participate in the betting" - Jerom, winner of autumn betting, 2016
"but wer eyiu playig a gainst someone as magnificent as jerom? thats wha ti thogutb jerom is a beaaitful human being"- Mr_Bramboy
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Norway iwillspankyou
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12 Mar 2017, 22:12

@Jerom do you really have power to just ban a civ? :shock:
If that is so, I would srsly suggest you being nerfd! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Hippocrits are the worst of animals. I love elifants.
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United States of America Darwin_
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12 Mar 2017, 22:14

pecelot wrote:You mentioned chopping wood in age 1 for a TP, possibly — I guess then you could ship 700 wood first in age 2. Still, I guess aging with 400 wood is not terrible in such cases (market start)? (btw I don't care)

Shipping 700w first in colonial is sub-optimal because sioux has no need for that amount of wood, unless they are going stagecoach. You almost always need to age with 400w because it is the exact amount you really need, as long as you already have a tp or a market.
Israel PRStudios
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15 Mar 2017, 23:09

Who here is excited about the new 85f vils for Portugal? Top civ now?!??!?!?
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Canada _NiceKING_
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15 Mar 2017, 23:13

PRStudios wrote:Who here is excited about the new 85f vils for Portugal? Top civ now?!??!?!?

it's 80f in the current patch :hmm:
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15 Mar 2017, 23:27

oh xD
Last edited by _NiceKING_ on 16 Mar 2017, 00:07, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: merged his two separate very short posts

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