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France Rikikipu
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18 Mar 2017, 15:19

Aizamk wrote:I also wish to file a complaint: Malaysia doesn't look like that. Also, it should be Malaya. :chinese:

k I'll rename it bekmalaya in next update
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18 Mar 2017, 15:23

Rikikipu wrote:
Darwin_ wrote:Edit: WHY are there incan natives in Iowa? https://www.google.com/search?q=incan+e ... Zrt7CN3GIM :

As you can see from this, the Incan empire never came close to reaching north america, let alone central america. Something like comanche or cheyenne would be historically accurate.

If you want to respect historical accuracy, then you should ban TWC civs from playing on Asian maps and only allowing Brits, France, Spain and Portugal and TWC civs to play on American continent maps.
So I decided to sacrify the holy "historical accuracy" in favor of adding new potential strategies.

Ok, that sounds cool. I would like to point out that the training speed tech can make long-term team games broken because if the player has riding school, gets that tech as well as mass cavalry, all cavalry is instant train, which is horrible for balance.
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18 Mar 2017, 17:59

Dsy wrote:Other thing is (which Noone mentioned) that the devs alraedy compensated the lack of ranged attack with health on the melee explorers... Cover mode is just a double buff which isnt needed.

There isnt such thing. All WCs have 500 hp while european have 400. Asian monks have 250 or 500 in the case of China.
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18 Mar 2017, 18:02

Saw jakey steamroll with Sioux last night. Nice changes to sioux, while keeping bow rider nerf. Maybe changes to Cetan bow or clubs?
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18 Mar 2017, 18:08

EAGLEMUT wrote:
querty wrote:Good work guys!

Does the tp gathering Bonus has a cap or can you pump it up to 6*4% = 24%? (36% with Aggressive Policy card)

There is no cap on the gathering boost. The formula is actually 1.04^6 (27%) for max boost without cards and 1.06^6 (42%) using Aggressive Policy card. With Aggressive Policy and Nomadic Expansion together, you can reach up to 1.06^12 (101% boost).


Why doesn't the formula for teepee % boost go off of base rates? Everything in this game goes off base stats. Does this mean that when the teepee boost combines with market techs, that it goes off the vils new gather rate instead of base rate?
6% boost with 12 teepees should be a 72% boost off gather rate, but you say 101% boost of, teched rates or base?
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18 Mar 2017, 19:47

Garja wrote:
Dsy wrote:Other thing is (which Noone mentioned) that the devs alraedy compensated the lack of ranged attack with health on the melee explorers... Cover mode is just a double buff which isnt needed.

There isnt such thing. All WCs have 500 hp while european have 400. Asian monks have 250 or 500 in the case of China.


I mean eu civs has 400/500/620 hp.
Twc civs 500/750/1250 so they got already their buff. No need to even double these numbers.
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18 Mar 2017, 20:33

Cover mode isnt a buff (let alone 100% one). And it has never been that problematic. Now just because some players cant deal with the speedy WC troll a substantial aspect of the civ has been removed.
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18 Mar 2017, 20:36

Garja wrote:Really good job for the release!
Aztecs changes are hilarious tho. As if warchief card amd team schooners were usable in real games.
Cover mode removed for the warchief but China monk which way stronger still has it. Ah btw China has a card for an extra monk. Let's nerf that too? lol

Also no cal on teepees, rofl

The patch went fron a controversial but acceptable one to complete bs.


team schooners shouldve been left in, or atleast made to be just a normal card, that doesnt affect other mates but only the aztec player. Who even made this decision lol, i never saw a thread about it.

Teepee change is great, stop crying about it, youve never tried it. 5v should be reverted back, sioux doesnt need it. I would prefer the buff to mustang card instead.
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18 Mar 2017, 20:43

I tested it?
Just go 4axe 5v 700g 700w for example. Make 5 br and age at 8 minutes or so with 5 teepees, 2 tps 2 war huts, 200w to up axe and good eco. It is simply borderline op. Now apperently there isnt a cap on teepee bonus (which was supposed initially) so with 100w start you can rven go 6 teepees probably and put like 10 teepees around farms and plants in lategame.
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18 Mar 2017, 20:54

Garja wrote:Cover mode isnt a buff (let alone 100% one). And it has never been that problematic. Now just because some players cant deal with the speedy WC troll a substantial aspect of the civ has been removed.


If it wouldnt be problematic you wouldnt call it substantial. Its really a big deal if 1250 hp age 3 explorer has 2500 instead. Plus it doesnt even lose any speed thanks to the bug.
1250 is alraedy a huge hp compare to an eu explorer which has 620. Why would it be so natural to have 2500 instead? Like a free mameluke.
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18 Mar 2017, 21:19

Garja wrote:I tested it?
Just go 4axe 5v 700g 700w for example. Make 5 br and age at 8 minutes or so with 5 teepees, 2 tps 2 war huts, 200w to up axe and good eco. It is simply borderline op. Now apperently there isnt a cap on teepee bonus (which was supposed initially) so with 100w start you can rven go 6 teepees probably and put like 10 teepees around farms and plants in lategame.


nah its not, cuz at 10-15 min all the res around the teepees are gone. Plus unless u clutter everything inside the teepee range, its really hard to get the bonus of every teepee. It's not op at all, sioux still struggles vs the things they struggle against normally, which is strong midgame fortress civs that can consolidate map control with mobile goons and vs strong rushes.
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18 Mar 2017, 21:20

Garja wrote:I tested it?
Just go 4axe 5v 700g 700w for example. Make 5 br and age at 8 minutes or so with 5 teepees, 2 tps 2 war huts, 200w to up axe and good eco. It is simply borderline op. Now apperently there isnt a cap on teepee bonus (which was supposed initially) so with 100w start you can rven go 6 teepees probably and put like 10 teepees around farms and plants in lategame.


who says there is no cap?
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18 Mar 2017, 21:33

Eaglemut (the guy who made the change) says that earlier in the thread.

For 510w (assuming you get six before you send the +6 card which also reduces the wood cost) and two colonial cards you can double your economy within a small radius.

Additionally any unit you stand in the radius will have its hp more than tripled. And if you send a further card you can more than triple the attack of your defending units as well. (So cetans 2-hit musks and clubs 3-hit huss).

Alternatively if you send no card but just do a 6 teepee boom (why would you not- maybe you should even do 6 teepees immediately- it should slow down when you have enough resources to click up by like 15 seconds) you have +25% eco for 300w and any unit standing in the radius gets a +75% HP buff.
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18 Mar 2017, 21:37

Garja wrote:Cover mode isnt a buff (let alone 100% one). And it has never been that problematic. Now just because some players cant deal with the speedy WC troll a substantial aspect of the civ has been removed.

How come a blatant bug has never been problematic? It's rather irrelevant, but it was too strong and just not fun at all, rushing with one Übertank to annihilate everything and soaking thousands of hits.
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18 Mar 2017, 21:48

ListlessSalmon wrote:Eaglemut (the guy who made the change) says that earlier in the thread.



Additionally any unit you stand in the radius will have its hp more than tripled. And if you send a further card you can more than triple the attack of your defending units as well. (So cetans 2-hit musks and clubs 3-hit huss).



lol nah, 1 teepee gives 5% hp bonus. And the radius for hp is still pretty small i think. Even then, 6 teepees give only 30%. Not 300% as u say lol.

also i doubt the teepee cards are viable in 1v1, specially the one that increases build limit. And in team they are only viable late game, when you are switching to plantiations and farms. Which is fine imo. Natural res runs out quite fast already, and with the teepees it runs out even faster. It will be hard to have wood and food and coin all in the teepee radius and even then it will last only for a short while. Outside your starting base, i doubt its even worth it to build teepees, because by the time ur mine or hunt runs out, it will barely have paid off. It gives a boost to the sioux early game and late game, while virtually leaving the middle game untouched. Which is perfect, because sioux needed a boost in those two areas, while they already excelled in the midgame. The boost however, is far from OP, considering that sioux has only 1 lategame tech card, 2 if you count mustangs, to boost their eco, and they dont have factories. So their lategame eco isnt even close to 2 factory Eco Theory and refrig/royal mint euro civs. And in the early game, it doesnt really matter if you have 5 teepees to boost your army if you barely have any army, so they still struggle vs rushes.
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18 Mar 2017, 21:53

umeu wrote:
ListlessSalmon wrote:Eaglemut (the guy who made the change) says that earlier in the thread.



Additionally any unit you stand in the radius will have its hp more than tripled. And if you send a further card you can more than triple the attack of your defending units as well. (So cetans 2-hit musks and clubs 3-hit huss).



lol nah, 1 teepee gives 5% hp bonus. And the radius for hp is still pretty small i think. Even then, 6 teepees give only 30%. Not 300% as u say lol.


I mean I just put a Cetan bow in a 12-teepee circle and its hp tripled. With 1 it went up 10%. I'm pretty sure it's (on the patch anyway) 10% HP and stack on current stats. Because the 1.1^12=~3.13 is about the multiplier I got.

Edit- just tested and it's the same HP formula (10% on current stats) on RE. (Except of course you can make 10 and 20 with the card there so you can reach the heights of multiplying unit stats by 6.7).
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18 Mar 2017, 22:07

IAmSoldieR wrote:
EAGLEMUT wrote:
querty wrote:Good work guys!

Does the tp gathering Bonus has a cap or can you pump it up to 6*4% = 24%? (36% with Aggressive Policy card)

There is no cap on the gathering boost. The formula is actually 1.04^6 (27%) for max boost without cards and 1.06^6 (42%) using Aggressive Policy card. With Aggressive Policy and Nomadic Expansion together, you can reach up to 1.06^12 (101% boost).


Why doesn't the formula for teepee % boost go off of base rates? Everything in this game goes off base stats. Does this mean that when the teepee boost combines with market techs, that it goes off the vils new gather rate instead of base rate?
6% boost with 12 teepees should be a 72% boost off gather rate, but you say 101% boost of, teched rates or base?

Bump
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18 Mar 2017, 22:18

u misunderstand what hes saying, it's not a 1.06 boost per teepee because each teepee boosts 6%. He doesnt say what it is boosting. It could boost 101% of the base rate, or it could boost 101% of market teched rate. I'm not sure which one it is though, maybe eaglemut can say it. Because i do know that karni mata boosts the market teched rate and not the base rate. And teepee hp's also boosts the actual rate (so also veteran teched etc) and not the base rate
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18 Mar 2017, 22:24

Dsy wrote:
Garja wrote:Cover mode isnt a buff (let alone 100% one). And it has never been that problematic. Now just because some players cant deal with the speedy WC troll a substantial aspect of the civ has been removed.


If it wouldnt be problematic you wouldnt call it substantial. Its really a big deal if 1250 hp age 3 explorer has 2500 instead. Plus it doesnt even lose any speed thanks to the bug.
1250 is alraedy a huge hp compare to an eu explorer which has 620. Why would it be so natural to have 2500 instead? Like a free mameluke.

Because it is a war chief and it is the only perk of meelee units. The fact that is substantial doesnt make it problematic.
The fact that it doesnt lose speed is of course a bug but way lees important than removing cover mode entirely. the bug itself is hardly going to win games, while lack of cover mode is going to lose you games probably.
pecelot wrote:
Garja wrote:Cover mode isnt a buff (let alone 100% one). And it has never been that problematic. Now just because some players cant deal with the speedy WC troll a substantial aspect of the civ has been removed.

How come a blatant bug has never been problematic? It's rather irrelevant, but it was too strong and just not fun at all, rushing with one Übertank to annihilate everything and soaking thousands of hits.

It s troll stuff, it doesnt really work in a real game. But more importantly doesnt justify the change anyway.
umeu wrote:
Garja wrote:I tested it?
Just go 4axe 5v 700g 700w for example. Make 5 br and age at 8 minutes or so with 5 teepees, 2 tps 2 war huts, 200w to up axe and good eco. It is simply borderline op. Now apperently there isnt a cap on teepee bonus (which was supposed initially) so with 100w start you can rven go 6 teepees probably and put like 10 teepees around farms and plants in lategame.


nah its not, cuz at 10-15 min all the res around the teepees are gone. Plus unless u clutter everything inside the teepee range, its really hard to get the bonus of every teepee. It's not op at all, sioux still struggles vs the things they struggle against normally, which is strong midgame fortress civs that can consolidate map control with mobile goons and vs strong rushes.

At 15 min you probably just won the game with one decisive battle and dogsoldier bb. You can always rebuild 5 teepees in another spot anyway. 250w for 20% is a good trade off at any point.
Vs aggro civs you probably just make 2 teepees only and benefit from 5v instead. Not OP but I dont think they really struggle.
Anyway %s are insane anyway without caps compared to any other up in the game.
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18 Mar 2017, 22:34

umeu wrote:u misunderstand what hes saying, it's not a 1.06 boost per teepee because each teepee boosts 6%. He doesnt say what it is boosting. It could boost 101% of the base rate, or it could boost 101% of market teched rate. I'm not sure which one it is though, maybe eaglemut can say it. Because i do know that karni mata boosts the market teched rate and not the base rate. And teepee hp's also boosts the actual rate (so also veteran teched etc) and not the base rate

Yeah, the teepee aura works totally the same way as Karni aura. It's not something I can even change, that is just the hardcoded aura behavior.
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18 Mar 2017, 22:55

umeu wrote:lol nah, 1 teepee gives 5% hp bonus

Have you played sioux before? :hmm:

Also, auras stack on current stats rather than base, so it's x1.1 every time so you can get x1.77 on current stats with 6 teepees
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18 Mar 2017, 23:11

nah keep having to invest 250 every time you move mine, thats not really great at all. You just gather you have gathered 2k coin in the time the other guy has gathered 1600c but you invested 250w in it, which means by the time it has paid off, you are already moving on to the next mind and have to invest another 250w.

also i said 15min, but thats really only trees and mines, hunts run out alot faster (you are only having hunts till that time if you sent hunt card, which really depends on mu if you can send it or not) and its hard to get both mines in radius of all teepees.

about aztecs, how is it just troll stuff that doesnt work in a real game, when diarouga has been using it to beat pretty much every player in the game and boneng/nagayumi have succesfully used it to beat ppl like blackstar in tournament games. how much more real must it get? you must win a game with it? zzz
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18 Mar 2017, 23:16

As far as I know, all auras buff current stats, while upgrades scale from base stats.
This also works with japanese Daymios iro explorer etc.
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19 Mar 2017, 00:51

Garja wrote:
pecelot wrote:
Garja wrote:Cover mode isnt a buff (let alone 100% one). And it has never been that problematic. Now just because some players cant deal with the speedy WC troll a substantial aspect of the civ has been removed.

How come a blatant bug has never been problematic? It's rather irrelevant, but it was too strong and just not fun at all, rushing with one Übertank to annihilate everything and soaking thousands of hits.

It s troll stuff, it doesnt really work in a real game. But more importantly doesnt justify the change anyway.

I saw it winning games — how would you deal with that normally?
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19 Mar 2017, 01:19

Az WC needed some type of fix. I think it'll still be a problem with how fast he gets back up from healing dance

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