A Farewell to His Manclness, _H2O, Dictator of ESOC

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Post by Garja »

getting standardized*
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Post by momuuu »

It's really a nerf. Not that I don't mind, I think that wonder if kinda broken. Didnt know it actually gave 1600xp but could've figured. It's just sad that the most cheesy strat in the book died due to that nerf haha.
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Post by _DB_ »

Yay! Cool to see Dutch and Port buffs. I'm sure Dutch will now be a top civ.

I love the logic behind the changing of cost of port villagers, that really makes sense.

I'm surprised to know that India and China aren't changed. I thought they will be nerfed. I'm actually happy because India is my fav civ now. :)

The silk road for Otto sounds a bit weird to me. Actually the eco otto will probably be okay, but I'm familiar to games where Otto actually end up getting better eco in many 1v1 games with the constant rushes in enemy base.
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Post by zoom »

jerom wrote:It''s really a nerf. Not that I don''t mind, I think that wonder if kinda broken. Didnt know it actually gave 1600xp but could''ve figured. It''s just sad that the most cheesy strat in the book died due to that nerf haha.
Yes. It''s a bug fix that inadvertently is a nerf. Has anyone said it''s not a nerf??
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Post by gibson »

zoom wrote:
jerom wrote:Its really a nerf. Not that I dont mind, I think that wonder if kinda broken. Didnt know it actually gave 1600xp but couldve figured. Its just sad that the most cheesy strat in the book died due to that nerf haha.
Yes. Its a bug fix that inadvertently is a nerf. Has anyone said its not a nerf??

garja implied it in his most recent post in this subject, which is I think what Jerom was referring to
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Post by briowl »

The Sioux changes need some work. They are meant to be a cav civ which reflects the history of the Sioux. The role of Infantry and cav are reveresed with infantry being the support units. So the cav hit and run then retreat to a position where there are teepees and infantry. As the aura on teepees need to be small the speed bonus to cetans doesn't really make much of a difference because you aren't going to kite if you've built teepees. The reason why we don't see foward warhuts with teepees, cetans and raiding bowriders in colonial is because the Sioux economy is too weak to get all of that out. All you've done is reintroduced the possibility of cetan laming back into the meta.
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Post by yurashic »

samwise12 wrote:whats wrong with chopping the 100w like alot of other civs
You have way less vills than other civs to chop wood so you can''t do that. Getting a good crate start where you dont have to chop wood and having to gather 100 extra is very big difference and makes the game more random.
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Post by Hagi »

Oct 26, 2015 17:46:48 GMT 1 Mitoe said:
Bug fixes
- "Close Combat" card now grants (x1) increased bonus damage against Light Infantry as well as Cavalry.

Is it the card from Jap?
If so, it's an improvement... there wasn't anything mention about +1 hand attack vs light infantry, only cavs.
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Post by [Armag] diarouga »

Another bug fix probably :P
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Post by Hagi »

diarouga wrote:Another bug fix probably :P
so it''s x3 in melee mode vs light infantry ?
and x4.5 vs cavs as previous.
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Post by Hagi »

nice card... ashi become pikes :P
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Post by Kaiserklein »

diarouga wrote:
ovi12 wrote:I dont see how you can argue with this.
People seem to forget we did testing games and sam was doing a sr semi into ca/abus and it didnt work at all.
It is a good shipment for a late colonial timing but, can you always wait 9min?
Vs TAD civs you definitely cant, vs twc civs you wont have time and most nilla civ can just age up vs that and win in age3 vs age2. What is scary on the re is that you cant age 3 vs a jan/abus nor beat it in age2.

Kaiserklein is saying that we have no clue about sr but actually we do. H2O and GS were playing before the SR nerf on TAD, musket/garja/me played many games on nilla and we know how good/bad is SR and it was almost never a good option in nilla.
I didnt say you have no clue about silk road (otherwise why would you buff it ?), just that this card is NEVER used in tad 1v1s, which means it isnt well known. As I said, on nilla you have to delay your first crate shipment, so most likely your first batch, by 40 seconds, the time for silk road to come in age 2. Yet even so it is often viable on nilla, because ottos can most often afford to make their first batch 40 sec later and because they will probs have a stronger timing at 7-9 min. Whatever, thats not even the problem, the thing is putting it in discovery. It means being able to pressure as fast as otto always could, but with way more eco.

Ofc the FP team tested it, but its simply impossible that this card is balanced. Whatever strats you guys might have tried, Im sorry but if you concluded after it that SR in age 1 sucks, you are wrong. That may seem arrogant but its just the truth, pure logic and experience showed that.

"It is a good shipment for a late colonial timing but, can you always wait 9min?" Thats all the problem lol, now it is not only for a late timing, it becomes immediately efficient... No need to sacrify your early colonial.
"sam was doing a sr semi into ca/abus and it didnt work at all" Why would you use silk road for a semi-ff ? If you semi ff, xp is more valuable than resources, so getting stagecoach isnt a good idea, which means that silk road is way less interesting. Should still work tho, at least it does on nilla.

Also dont forget that it is a team card. It will be OP in 1v1s, but if you dont believe me, at least understand that it will be the best card ever in team games. Anyway... When this card is abused you will soon enough see how OP it is in discovery lol
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Post by edeholland »

It's no longer a team card afaik.
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Post by spadel »

I appreciate the work all participants of the team have put in.

the changes look good, but (!!!) why on earth is wall LOS decreased?! People kept telling me I'm stupid when I built wall segments everywhere, because it's a waste. And now you nerf it for what reason exactly? :P
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Post by cohenski »

Until the one ring is destroyed, I don't feel comfortable with the state of Middle Earth. So long as the one ring remains, so too will H20.
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Post by [Armag] diarouga »

kaiserklein wrote:
diarouga wrote:People seem to forget we did testing games and sam was doing a sr semi into ca/abus and it didnt work at all.
It is a good shipment for a late colonial timing but, can you always wait 9min?
Vs TAD civs you definitely cant, vs twc civs you wont have time and most nilla civ can just age up vs that and win in age3 vs age2. What is scary on the re is that you cant age 3 vs a jan/abus nor beat it in age2.

Kaiserklein is saying that we have no clue about sr but actually we do. H2O and GS were playing before the SR nerf on TAD, musket/garja/me played many games on nilla and we know how good/bad is SR and it was almost never a good option in nilla.
I didnt say you have no clue about silk road (otherwise why would you buff it ?), just that this card is NEVER used in tad 1v1s, which means it isnt well known. As I said, on nilla you have to delay your first crate shipment, so most likely your first batch, by 40 seconds, the time for silk road to come in age 2. Yet even so it is often viable on nilla, because ottos can most often afford to make their first batch 40 sec later and because they will probs have a stronger timing at 7-9 min. Whatever, thats not even the problem, the thing is putting it in discovery. It means being able to pressure as fast as otto always could, but with way more eco.

Ofc the FP team tested it, but its simply impossible that this card is balanced. Whatever strats you guys might have tried, Im sorry but if you concluded after it that SR in age 1 sucks, you are wrong. That may seem arrogant but its just the truth, pure logic and experience showed that.

"It is a good shipment for a late colonial timing but, can you always wait 9min?" Thats all the problem lol, now it is not only for a late timing, it becomes immediately efficient... No need to sacrify your early colonial.
"sam was doing a sr semi into ca/abus and it didnt work at all" Why would you use silk road for a semi-ff ? If you semi ff, xp is more valuable than resources, so getting stagecoach isnt a good idea, which means that silk road is way less interesting. Should still work tho, at least it does on nilla.

Also dont forget that it is a team card. It will be OP in 1v1s, but if you dont believe me, at least understand that it will be the best card ever in team games. Anyway... When this card is abused you will soon enough see how OP it is in discovery lol
We tested both 3v/sr with 2TP in age1 and sr 1st with 2tp and it is not bad but it is not op.
If you go for some late colo timings, then your opponent will be able to age3.

If you think it is op then youll show us how op your otto are :p
If it s too op (which I doubt), well change it anyway.

And you also seem to forget that abus were nerfed.
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Post by Hagi »

spadel wrote:I appreciate the work all participants of the team have put in.

the changes look good, but (!!!) why on earth is wall LOS decreased?! People kept telling me I''m stupid when I built wall segments everywhere, because it''s a waste. And now you nerf it for what reason exactly? :P
I still haven''t get a serious answer about why they nerf the walls.
So I make my own... I''m pretty sure wall nerf is for the people who use wall wrongly. Now they will stop building walls and get better at this game, lol
I mean, seriously, we see holes in walls, walls when there is no rush from the opponent, etc...
I never saw any serious problem with walls.
Just a reminder : do you think walls helped Kynesie when he played Bsop in spring tournament? ... that''s what I thought....
Walls are a part of strategy, not something OP or lame.
Now it becomes a bad strategy lol.
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Post by Kaiserklein »

diarouga wrote:
kaiserklein wrote:I didnt say you have no clue about silk road (otherwise why would you buff it ?), just that this card is NEVER used in tad 1v1s, which means it isnt well known. As I said, on nilla you have to delay your first crate shipment, so most likely your first batch, by 40 seconds, the time for silk road to come in age 2. Yet even so it is often viable on nilla, because ottos can most often afford to make their first batch 40 sec later and because they will probs have a stronger timing at 7-9 min. Whatever, thats not even the problem, the thing is putting it in discovery. It means being able to pressure as fast as otto always could, but with way more eco.

Ofc the FP team tested it, but its simply impossible that this card is balanced. Whatever strats you guys might have tried, Im sorry but if you concluded after it that SR in age 1 sucks, you are wrong. That may seem arrogant but its just the truth, pure logic and experience showed that.

"It is a good shipment for a late colonial timing but, can you always wait 9min?" Thats all the problem lol, now it is not only for a late timing, it becomes immediately efficient... No need to sacrify your early colonial.
"sam was doing a sr semi into ca/abus and it didnt work at all" Why would you use silk road for a semi-ff ? If you semi ff, xp is more valuable than resources, so getting stagecoach isnt a good idea, which means that silk road is way less interesting. Should still work tho, at least it does on nilla.

Also dont forget that it is a team card. It will be OP in 1v1s, but if you dont believe me, at least understand that it will be the best card ever in team games. Anyway... When this card is abused you will soon enough see how OP it is in discovery lol
We tested both 3v/sr with 2TP in age1 and sr 1st with 2tp and it is not bad but it is not op.
If you go for some late colo timings, then your opponent will be able to age3.

If you think it is op then youll show us how op your otto are :p
If it s too op (which I doubt), well change it anyway.

And you also seem to forget that abus were nerfed.
Abus nerf changes almost nothing, if you kite the ROF doesnt really matter and if you dont you can just split your abus more efficiently, a bit like ca?adores on nilla. And even if it really meant 14% less dps, which it doesnt, abus would still be a very good unit.

As I said, you dont need to go for a late colonial timing now that this card is in discovery, you can abus jan rush for example. Or if you come at 8 min with an insane mass thanks to silk road and timing push a semi ff, id like to see how this will be countered.

As soon as the FP is released I will play that strat anyway and Ill upload the recs
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Post by [Armag] diarouga »

We also tested 8 timings xD, we're not dumb, with sr you can't have more than 35jans or 15jans/10 abus in your opponent towns.
That's strong, hard to hold but managable, that's why otto is a good civ but not the best anymore.
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Post by zoom »

adv wrote:Oct 26, 2015 17:46:48 GMT 1 Mitoe said:
Bug fixes
- "Close Combat" card now grants (x1) increased bonus damage against Light Infantry as well as Cavalry.

Is it the card from Jap?
If so, it''s an improvement... there wasn''t anything mention about +1 hand attack vs light infantry, only cavs.
The idea is that light infantry has the exact same unit role as cavalry and thus should also be subject to the effects of the card.
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Post by zoom »

spadel wrote:I appreciate the work all participants of the team have put in.

the changes look good, but (!!!) why on earth is wall LOS decreased?! People kept telling me I''m stupid when I built wall segments everywhere, because it''s a waste. And now you nerf it for what reason exactly? :P
Because walls aren''t intended to provide complete map line-of-sight' at all let alone for 50w.
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Post by [Armag] diarouga »

Imo that wasn't the best nerf.
Strategically, building walls for los is interesting.
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Post by britishmusketeer »

jerom wrote:
zoom wrote:Its dead because you now only get one shipment, a Daimyo and a unit &' train-time discount?

#brutal
well you used to get three and badly needed those to get aj army going. But something that wasnt viable at the top level wont be viable and my level after getting nerfed I think.

its not just about the FI. It currently means you can age to industrial at any point with instant payoff and then have all the benefits of being in age 4 for the rest of the game.
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Post by fei123456 »

spadel wrote:I appreciate the work all participants of the team have put in.

the changes look good, but (!!!) why on earth is wall LOS decreased?! People kept telling me I''m stupid when I built wall segments everywhere, because it''s a waste. And now you nerf it for what reason exactly? :P
cuz they hate you :)
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Post by Kaiserklein »

diarouga wrote:We also tested 8 timings xD, we''re not dumb, with sr you can''t have more than 35jans or 15jans/10 abus in your opponent towns.
That''s strong, hard to hold but managable, that''s why otto is a good civ but not the best anymore.
I can have 15 jans 10 abus at 7 min so I doubt with silk at 8 you don''t have more lol
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