RO128 preview and stream schedule

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Re: RO128 preview and stream schedule

Post by medinos »

I wish microsoft would give a new update on aoe 3 just because of the map hack nothing less than that.... :/
Its sad...Yesterday on kynesie stream we saw the app of the map hack... Man I was dissapointed...
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Re: RO128 preview and stream schedule

Post by Mr_Bramboy »

Map hack, OOS, and any other loopholes will be fixed in the next patch.
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Re: RO128 preview and stream schedule

Post by deleted_user0 »

medinos wrote:I wish microsoft would give a new update on aoe 3 just because of the map hack nothing less than that.... :/
Its sad...Yesterday on kynesie stream we saw the app of the map hack... Man I was dissapointed...


ya that was really sad. specially since he pretended not to understand what osmane was saying in skype and then deleted that video.
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Re: RO128 preview and stream schedule

Post by Asato4 »

Some interesting matches for a good start for this new year. I'm looking forward it too :p
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Re: RO128 preview and stream schedule

Post by Wuangaga »

Dolan wrote:This is so pointless, since you can't check who is using maphack in this tourney.
I'm starting to doubt all those high level players who have build a name for themselves are legit.
It seems everyone and their cousin know about the maphack program in the aoe3 community and many are actually using it. So, next time I'll see a "smart move" on the map in a game, I won't know if it's skills, luck or just plain maphacking.

You only posted that because of kynesie showing his maphack program on stream right?
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Re: RO128 preview and stream schedule

Post by Dolan »

Wuangaga wrote:You only posted that because of kynesie showing his maphack program on stream right?

That and because I noticed there are a lot more players who are familiar with the maphack program.
So now basically all that talk about some players being OP was for nothing. It's just them using "tools" like maphack, mouse DPI-increasing software, special UIs and whatnot.

I'm ok with people using special UIs only because they are transparent or have a better placement of the original standard buttons (optimised UI), but when you use a UI with extra buttons which simplify your macro, that's another issue.
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Re: RO128 preview and stream schedule

Post by Mr_Bramboy »

Dolan wrote:
Wuangaga wrote:You only posted that because of kynesie showing his maphack program on stream right?

That and because I noticed there are a lot more players who are familiar with the maphack program.
So now basically all that talk about some players being OP was for nothing. It's just them using "tools" like maphack, mouse DPI-increasing software, special UIs and whatnot.

I'm ok with people using special UIs only because they are transparent or have a better placement of the original standard buttons (optimised UI), but when you use a UI with extra buttons which simplify your macro, that's another issue.

I'll just repeat myself: Maphack, OOS, and most currently known "moesbar" exploits will be fixed in the next version of EP
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Re: RO128 preview and stream schedule

Post by thebritish »

Dolan wrote:
Wuangaga wrote:You only posted that because of kynesie showing his maphack program on stream right?

That and because I noticed there are a lot more players who are familiar with the maphack program.
So now basically all that talk about some players being OP was for nothing. It's just them using "tools" like maphack, mouse DPI-increasing software, special UIs and whatnot.

I'm ok with people using special UIs only because they are transparent or have a better placement of the original standard buttons (optimised UI), but when you use a UI with extra buttons which simplify your macro, that's another issue.

personal UI's are not forbidden
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Re: RO128 preview and stream schedule

Post by deleted_user0 »

Dolan wrote:
Wuangaga wrote:You only posted that because of kynesie showing his maphack program on stream right?

That and because I noticed there are a lot more players who are familiar with the maphack program.
So now basically all that talk about some players being OP was for nothing. It's just them using "tools" like maphack, mouse DPI-increasing software, special UIs and whatnot.

I'm ok with people using special UIs only because they are transparent or have a better placement of the original standard buttons (optimised UI), but when you use a UI with extra buttons which simplify your macro, that's another issue.


i understand your concern about mh, but i feel you are a bit mistaken about the rest. AoE is mainly a game about information. Knowledge is the most important asset in this game, your mechanical skill (apm, simplified macro etc) are only the cherry on top. Thats why maphack is such a big dealbreaker, kynesies ui with shrine interface is convenient, but it doesnt really matter in terms of skill. u could give that ui to a ms, and he will remain ms i garantuee you. give ms a maphack and he should be captain pretty soon.
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Re: RO128 preview and stream schedule

Post by gibson »

Mr_Bramboy wrote:
Dolan wrote:
Wuangaga wrote:You only posted that because of kynesie showing his maphack program on stream right?

That and because I noticed there are a lot more players who are familiar with the maphack program.
So now basically all that talk about some players being OP was for nothing. It's just them using "tools" like maphack, mouse DPI-increasing software, special UIs and whatnot.

I'm ok with people using special UIs only because they are transparent or have a better placement of the original standard buttons (optimised UI), but when you use a UI with extra buttons which simplify your macro, that's another issue.

I'll just repeat myself: Maphack, OOS, and most currently known "moesbar" exploits will be fixed in the next version of EP
Maphack is a separate program, not part of the game, so its not possible to fix.
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Re: RO128 preview and stream schedule

Post by princeofkabul »

lukas gonna steamroll over bram sorry buddy.
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Re: RO128 preview and stream schedule

Post by deleted_user0 »

plata o plomo
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Re: RO128 preview and stream schedule

Post by princeofkabul »

umeu escobar
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Re: RO128 preview and stream schedule

Post by lesllamas »

umeu wrote:
Dolan wrote:
Wuangaga wrote:You only posted that because of kynesie showing his maphack program on stream right?

That and because I noticed there are a lot more players who are familiar with the maphack program.
So now basically all that talk about some players being OP was for nothing. It's just them using "tools" like maphack, mouse DPI-increasing software, special UIs and whatnot.

I'm ok with people using special UIs only because they are transparent or have a better placement of the original standard buttons (optimised UI), but when you use a UI with extra buttons which simplify your macro, that's another issue.


i understand your concern about mh, but i feel you are a bit mistaken about the rest. AoE is mainly a game about information. Knowledge is the most important asset in this game, your mechanical skill (apm, simplified macro etc) are only the cherry on top. Thats why maphack is such a big dealbreaker, kynesies ui with shrine interface is convenient, but it doesnt really matter in terms of skill. u could give that ui to a ms, and he will remain ms i garantuee you. give ms a maphack and he should be captain pretty soon.


I disagree about custom UI's. I don't mind if you make a UI condensed to show more of the screen, or switch around where any of the tools in the standard UI are, but I've seen UI's that have their market res trade options always available without selecting the market, counters of idle military units (information not available with the standard UI), and other features. These extra features should not be allowed in tournament play. If you think the difference in UI capability does not matter, you're delusional. Each additional tool reduces the amount of time you have to spend on any one task, and time is an extremely valuable resource in an rts. The argument that a better UI won't instantly improve a player from MS to a higher rank is a strawman in nature and irrelevant.

Consider this--two equally ranked players play a 7 game series, but one of them does not have the UI feature that tells the distribution of vills on each resource (a standard feature). Even though it's possible that the player could keep track of their macro through other means, I would bet a significant amount of money that the other player will win the series. The UI tools are important and they affect gameplay significantly, and should absolutely be kept standardized. Additional tools are shortcuts that do not exist in the game. If player A has to click on his market to trade resources, player B should be forced to take that action as well. The ability to not spend extra time performing an action is much more important than you make it seem.
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Re: RO128 preview and stream schedule

Post by Mr_Bramboy »

Custom ui features such as market trading, shrines, select all warship buttons should be illegal and can actually be banned with the fan patch, although I doubt this will happen due to the resistance from the community.
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Re: RO128 preview and stream schedule

Post by Mr_Bramboy »

Anyways, The RO128 is starting in two days!
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Re: RO128 preview and stream schedule

Post by Method_man714 »

Mr_Bramboy wrote:Custom ui features such as market trading, shrines, select all warship buttons should be illegal and can actually be banned with the fan patch, although I doubt this will happen due to the resistance from the community.

The market trading on the enkanta ui is extremely op imo, gives a huge advantage, but is a better ui really cheating?
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Re: RO128 preview and stream schedule

Post by lesllamas »

Anything that you mod into the game that gives you an appreciable advantage over your opponent who is playing with only the tools provided by the game should be considered cheating. That said, I don't really think there's anything wrong with rearranging the tools that exist in the game to a better configuration, but the UI tools should remain exactly the same as what the standard game can provide.
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Re: RO128 preview and stream schedule

Post by momuuu »

lesllamas wrote:Anything that you mod into the game that gives you an appreciable advantage over your opponent who is playing with only the tools provided by the game should be considered cheating. That said, I don't really think there's anything wrong with rearranging the tools that exist in the game to a better configuration, but the UI tools should remain exactly the same as what the standard game can provide.

Can you edit those extra buttons out of ekanta for me? I strongly dislike them. Im not even sure I like ekanta other than the fact that the transparancy is cool.
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Re: RO128 preview and stream schedule

Post by lesllamas »

Jerom wrote:
lesllamas wrote:Anything that you mod into the game that gives you an appreciable advantage over your opponent who is playing with only the tools provided by the game should be considered cheating. That said, I don't really think there's anything wrong with rearranging the tools that exist in the game to a better configuration, but the UI tools should remain exactly the same as what the standard game can provide.

Can you edit those extra buttons out of ekanta for me? I strongly dislike them. Im not even sure I like ekanta other than the fact that the transparancy is cool.


Sadly, I don't think I can. Computer science is not something I'm particularly familiar with. I work in game design from a creative and balance perspective, so I just tell people who actually do real work what to do for a living :P.
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Re: RO128 preview and stream schedule

Post by deleted_user0 »

lesllamas wrote:
umeu wrote:
Show hidden quotes


i understand your concern about mh, but i feel you are a bit mistaken about the rest. AoE is mainly a game about information. Knowledge is the most important asset in this game, your mechanical skill (apm, simplified macro etc) are only the cherry on top. Thats why maphack is such a big dealbreaker, kynesies ui with shrine interface is convenient, but it doesnt really matter in terms of skill. u could give that ui to a ms, and he will remain ms i garantuee you. give ms a maphack and he should be captain pretty soon.


I disagree about custom UI's. I don't mind if you make a UI condensed to show more of the screen, or switch around where any of the tools in the standard UI are, but I've seen UI's that have their market res trade options always available without selecting the market, counters of idle military units (information not available with the standard UI), and other features. These extra features should not be allowed in tournament play. If you think the difference in UI capability does not matter, you're delusional. Each additional tool reduces the amount of time you have to spend on any one task, and time is an extremely valuable resource in an rts. The argument that a better UI won't instantly improve a player from MS to a higher rank is a strawman in nature and irrelevant.

Consider this--two equally ranked players play a 7 game series, but one of them does not have the UI feature that tells the distribution of vills on each resource (a standard feature). Even though it's possible that the player could keep track of their macro through other means, I would bet a significant amount of money that the other player will win the series. The UI tools are important and they affect gameplay significantly, and should absolutely be kept standardized. Additional tools are shortcuts that do not exist in the game. If player A has to click on his market to trade resources, player B should be forced to take that action as well. The ability to not spend extra time performing an action is much more important than you make it seem.


I'm not saying it doesn't matter, i am saying, it doesnt matter that much. Because they are related to smoothing things when you already master the game, they are not related to the core concepts and skills of the game. almost no top player actually uses a different ui, as you can see from pretty much every stream in the game so far, so its totally bs to say that they are only good because they have a extra market option in their ui. thats delusional. obviously if you have down all the basics, then such an option will save you time selecting the market and thus it will smoothen the flow of your game, but let's be realistic, there will only be a few moments when this will actually be crucial enough to make a difference in "skill level" as translated into pr or elo. im not claiming that its fair, im actually in favor of it being banned, all i was arguing against was his notion that high ranked players are only high ranked because they have better "tools". so i dont see how my argument was a strawman, you just misunderstood it. thats not my fault

you clearly don't understand the nature of aoe, most people who are low ranked in aoe are that because they don't make the right decisions. not because they can't find their market. one great example is kaiserklein, a player with great mechanical skills and apm, he actually has one of the best mouse control atm in the game as far as i know. but he still a lt col, do you know why? because his decision making and game knowledge are not as great as that of a brigadier. its really that simple. Darwin giovanny is a great example of the opposite, one of the highest ranked elo of all time (inflated or otherwise, thats still a big achievement) but he really didn't have great mechanical skills. his unit control was poor, but he understood the game perfectly (albeit only with 1 civ)
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Re: RO128 preview and stream schedule

Post by [Armag] diarouga »

Kynesie has never used the maphack vs a human and his opponents would tell the same.
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Re: RO128 preview and stream schedule

Post by lesllamas »

I disagree about custom UI's. I don't mind if you make a UI condensed to show more of the screen, or switch around where any of the tools in the standard UI are, but I've seen UI's that have their market res trade options always available without selecting the market, counters of idle military units (information not available with the standard UI), and other features. These extra features should not be allowed in tournament play. If you think the difference in UI capability does not matter, you're delusional. Each additional tool reduces the amount of time you have to spend on any one task, and time is an extremely valuable resource in an rts. The argument that a better UI won't instantly improve a player from MS to a higher rank is a strawman in nature and irrelevant.

Consider this--two equally ranked players play a 7 game series, but one of them does not have the UI feature that tells the distribution of vills on each resource (a standard feature). Even though it's possible that the player could keep track of their macro through other means, I would bet a significant amount of money that the other player will win the series. The UI tools are important and they affect gameplay significantly, and should absolutely be kept standardized. Additional tools are shortcuts that do not exist in the game. If player A has to click on his market to trade resources, player B should be forced to take that action as well. The ability to not spend extra time performing an action is much more important than you make it seem.


I'm not saying it doesn't matter, i am saying, it doesnt matter that much. Because they are related to smoothing things when you already master the game, they are not related to the core concepts and skills of the game. almost no top player actually uses a different ui, as you can see from pretty much every stream in the game so far, so its totally bs to say that they are only good because they have a extra market option in their ui. thats delusional. obviously if you have down all the basics, then such an option will save you time selecting the market and thus it will smoothen the flow of your game, but let's be realistic, there will only be a few moments when this will actually be crucial enough to make a difference in "skill level" as translated into pr or elo. im not claiming that its fair, im actually in favor of it being banned, all i was arguing against was his notion that high ranked players are only high ranked because they have better "tools". so i dont see how my argument was a strawman, you just misunderstood it. thats not my fault

you clearly don't understand the nature of aoe, most people who are low ranked in aoe are that because they don't make the right decisions. not because they can't find their market. one great example is kaiserklein, a player with great mechanical skills and apm, he actually has one of the best mouse control atm in the game as far as i know. but he still a lt col, do you know why? because his decision making and game knowledge are not as great as that of a brigadier. its really that simple. Darwin giovanny is a great example of the opposite, one of the highest ranked elo of all time (inflated or otherwise, thats still a big achievement) but he really didn't have great mechanical skills. his unit control was poor, but he understood the game perfectly (albeit only with 1 civ)



I think we may have misrepresented each other's arguments. I never said or claimed that a custom UI would increase a player's skill or rank--I did say that it gave some appreciable advantage that could tip the scales between two otherwise evenly matched players. Your post seems to suggest that you think I argued what Dolan had said (which was that maphack and custom UI were in the same boat as far as advantages go).

And if you're for banning the custom UI then I can only assume that we agree on this issue. I never discussed how a custom UI might affect a person's elo or pr, and I don't think anyone will disagree with you on your points there.

I believe I initially misrepresented your argument by taking your post to mean that you thought the custom UI did not give an appreciable advantage to the player who used it, and therefore should not be banned.

Also, I'm not certain why you had to bring ad hominem into this discussion. For my own part, I feel like I've kept this discussion relatively civil and on point. Personal slights detract from the focus of a discussion and there's no reason to use them unbidden on a forum.
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Re: RO128 preview and stream schedule

Post by deleted_user0 »

im not sure where i attacked you personally or used any bad language :/
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Re: RO128 preview and stream schedule

Post by momuuu »

umeu wrote:im not sure where i attacked you personally or used any bad language :/

"you clearly don't understand the nature of aoe"

Was such an unnecessary comment lol.

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