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United States of America evilcheadar
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30 Dec 2016, 05:38

sircallen wrote:How am I trivializing frustrations? Please tell me if that is how I came across.

I'm trying to be transparent. I hope you'll be satisfied with the changes we've made as they are very much influenced by accounts such as yours. We're trying, we truly are.

No not you, it was a poster above you. (Starts with J)
Off topic---more like locked topic!

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Netherland Antilles Laurence Drake
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30 Dec 2016, 05:43

Where is the ESOC council? Why are we not represented!?
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Canada sircallen
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30 Dec 2016, 06:17

Laurence Drake wrote:Where is the ESOC council? Why are we not represented!?


If you'd like I have a two page response on the council and it's program I'm willing to release in due time. I believe ESOC criticism be met with a suffiecent response; with (minimally) unbiased reason and a forum open to the continuation of such debate, though I hope you'll see why I possess my reservations with its rhetoric. Nonetheless, I don't think we are as much of enemies as you might think; simply differing philosophies.
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Netherland Antilles Laurence Drake
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30 Dec 2016, 08:22

The community demands that the council be involved in all future action taken by the executive committee
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United States of America evilcheadar
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30 Dec 2016, 08:46

It would be interesting if they were more interested in having some council influence.
Off topic---more like locked topic!

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30 Dec 2016, 09:25

Laurence Drake wrote:The community demands that the council be involved in all future action taken by the executive committee

the council community? :hmm:
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Canada sircallen
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30 Dec 2016, 10:37

evilcheadar wrote:It would be interesting if they were more interested in having some council influence.


Note, the following represents my personal views on the topic and in no way represent ESOC's official stance

I'll flesh out more of my thoughts on this later, but the primary issue with the council is not their underlyimg motif but rather with their practices and (in)ability to act in a manner that would suggest they would like to be taken seriously.
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Netherlands Jerom
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30 Dec 2016, 10:59

The number one problem is that they try to inpersonate staff. I bet you'd get banned for making a team liquid council just for that reason alone.

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"but wer eyiu playig a gainst someone as magnificent as jerom? thats wha ti thogutb jerom is a beaaitful human being"- Mr_Bramboy
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Sweden 91
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30 Dec 2016, 11:00

While I like the admin split to reflect better what people do - I don't like the removal of the "moderator" tag. People should be 100% sure who is a moderator and who in the end decides what's allowed or not. And realize that this guy's warning in a thread or PM really does matter.

"ESOC community team" could be anything for a person who didn't read this post, and I don't like that. Why not name moderators moderators? Or does this have something to do with why "town center" is a better description of "off topic" than "off topic" is? Because I never understood that either..

btw "ESOC community team" = "eso-community community team"? :unsure:
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United States of America evilcheadar
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30 Dec 2016, 11:02

91 wrote:While I like the admin split to reflect better what people do - I don't like the removal of the "moderator" tag. People should be 100% sure who is a moderator and who in the end decides what's allowed or not. And realize that this guy's warning in a thread or PM really does matter.

"ESOC community team" could be anything for a person who didn't read this post, and I don't like that. Why not name moderators moderators? Or does this have something to do with why "town center" is a better description of "off topic" than "off topic" is? Because I never understood that either..

btw "ESOC community team" = "eso-community community team"? :unsure:

Yea, I'm with you on that town center thing. Should be off topic, where you can make off topic posts.
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Netherlands Jerom
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30 Dec 2016, 11:02

The community is so community is basically a community community. Funnily enough that could be interpreted as esoc being only for a community within the community.

"When life give you incompetence, participate in the betting" - Jerom, winner of autumn betting, 2016
"but wer eyiu playig a gainst someone as magnificent as jerom? thats wha ti thogutb jerom is a beaaitful human being"- Mr_Bramboy
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Netherland Antilles Laurence Drake
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30 Dec 2016, 11:22

pecelot wrote:
Laurence Drake wrote:The community demands that the council be involved in all future action taken by the executive committee

the council community? :hmm:

no, the community council
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Poland pecelot
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30 Dec 2016, 11:33

91 wrote:btw "ESOC community team" = "eso-community community team"? :unsure:

„ESOC" Community Team, so a community team for ESOC site
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Palestine Mimsy for President
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30 Dec 2016, 11:42

I think the Council should be exclusively involved in a Team called Board of Directors. We will spend the donations in the stock market and issue dividends if needed. We're considering entering the bond market within 2 years for financial sustainability. I've discussed with Morgan Stanley's CFO based in London, and he thinks it's a good idea the Council has got here. Hopefully the less important teams will understand.
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Netherland Antilles Laurence Drake
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30 Dec 2016, 12:20

This is a good initiative for raising money for future tournaments.
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New Zealand zoom
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30 Dec 2016, 14:20

Jerom wrote:
zoom wrote:Who wrote the message in the OP? Who will be making moderating decisions, given the pretense that they do not exist?

I think it is important to ESOC, at this time, to ensure a lack of bias & personal investment in moderating decisions. Moderating on this website continues to frustrate community members, it seems. I would suggest—yet again—that every single moderating decision come with a short text on how to appeal a decision perceived as mishandled. Especially important, is that banning users must be done only when absolutely necessary, by agreement of all staff leadership.

I emphasize, finally, my appreciation for the entirity of ESOC staff, and my acknowledgement of theirs being a sometimes difficult task.

The moderating does indeed 'frustrate' community members, but not due to the reasons you mentioned. It frustrates community members because being frustrated and throwing a tantrum will eventually get you unbanned. The best thing to do when you get banned is create smurf accounts, then stop for a tiny but until you are unbanned. If it doesn't work the first time repeat it a week or two later.
Although your concern and frustration is certainly valid—you would know better than myself—your post gives me the feeling you are also having a hard time understanding the outside perspective. At least that seems the case to me, if you actually believe there is no legitimate community concern with the issue(s). Regardless, I believe that's missing the point, on which I am sure we can all agree:

1. ESOC has room for improvement in the community's standing.
2. Antagonizing and banning community members is the direct opposite to ESOC's interest.
3. There is an alarmingly common perception of ESOC moderating being unfair in consistency and severity. It is a controversial issue.
4. ESOC should try its best to improve the above, fundamentally important areas, independently of anyone else.
sudmakmak wrote:This patch Keshik don't have buff anti cavalry = noob patch2.0
and don't have nerf hard japan = noob patch2.0
because all more noob player at this patch = noob logic.
or they maybe have boyfriend.(japanese boyfriend fuck your ass them)
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30 Dec 2016, 14:26

Because of the points you mention Zoom, we now have the community team (point 1). We want to take a positive approach and not be only banning policemen (point 2). We are starting with a new moderation policy where we will all agree on and we will have better supervision (point 3 & 4).
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Netherland Antilles Laurence Drake
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30 Dec 2016, 14:40

can I be a mod
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Japan Aizamk
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30 Dec 2016, 14:46

Since ESOC is a proper business now with a business team, I am considering charging yearly fees for UI 2.0 licenses. Don't worry, I will likely only start doing this next year so that there is plenty of time for you to hire a CFO.

@Mitoe is exempted since it's his birthday, however.
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30 Dec 2016, 14:48

sirmusket wrote:All have 3-4 people in team, then you got GS on his own :( xD
I like it. It's very representative. In fact, it's the most transparent thing ESOC has ever done.
sudmakmak wrote:This patch Keshik don't have buff anti cavalry = noob patch2.0
and don't have nerf hard japan = noob patch2.0
because all more noob player at this patch = noob logic.
or they maybe have boyfriend.(japanese boyfriend fuck your ass them)
Cyprus Snuden
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30 Dec 2016, 14:51

What will be your main income stream?
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30 Dec 2016, 15:01

n0el wrote:Patch team has a lot of people but they aren't staff members. God forbid zoom is a staff member.
Garja bless America and have mercy on Mankl.
sudmakmak wrote:This patch Keshik don't have buff anti cavalry = noob patch2.0
and don't have nerf hard japan = noob patch2.0
because all more noob player at this patch = noob logic.
or they maybe have boyfriend.(japanese boyfriend fuck your ass them)
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30 Dec 2016, 15:01

Snuden wrote:What will be your main income stream?
Goodspeed, map & UI licences.
sudmakmak wrote:This patch Keshik don't have buff anti cavalry = noob patch2.0
and don't have nerf hard japan = noob patch2.0
because all more noob player at this patch = noob logic.
or they maybe have boyfriend.(japanese boyfriend fuck your ass them)
Cyprus Snuden
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30 Dec 2016, 15:03

zoom wrote:
Snuden wrote:What will be your main income stream?
Goodspeed, map & UI licences.


So in order to use a specific UI and map, one will have to pay?
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Netherlands Jerom
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30 Dec 2016, 15:05

zoom wrote:
Jerom wrote:
zoom wrote:Who wrote the message in the OP? Who will be making moderating decisions, given the pretense that they do not exist?

I think it is important to ESOC, at this time, to ensure a lack of bias & personal investment in moderating decisions. Moderating on this website continues to frustrate community members, it seems. I would suggest—yet again—that every single moderating decision come with a short text on how to appeal a decision perceived as mishandled. Especially important, is that banning users must be done only when absolutely necessary, by agreement of all staff leadership.

I emphasize, finally, my appreciation for the entirity of ESOC staff, and my acknowledgement of theirs being a sometimes difficult task.

The moderating does indeed 'frustrate' community members, but not due to the reasons you mentioned. It frustrates community members because being frustrated and throwing a tantrum will eventually get you unbanned. The best thing to do when you get banned is create smurf accounts, then stop for a tiny but until you are unbanned. If it doesn't work the first time repeat it a week or two later.
Although your concern and frustration is certainly valid—you would know better than myself—your post gives me the feeling you are also having a hard time understanding the outside perspective. At least that seems the case to me, if you actually believe there is no legitimate community concern with the issue(s). Regardless, I believe that's missing the point, on which I am sure we can all agree:

1. ESOC has room for improvement in the community's standing.
2. Antagonizing and banning community members is the direct opposite to ESOC's interest.
3. There is an alarmingly common perception of ESOC moderating being unfair in consistency and severity. It is a controversial issue.
4. ESOC should try its best to improve the above, fundamentally important areas, independently of anyone else.

I honestly only agree with point number one, from my position as community member that wants an aoe themed forum I think moderation getting stricter is in the best interests of all except those that wish this wasn't actually about aoe.

"When life give you incompetence, participate in the betting" - Jerom, winner of autumn betting, 2016
"but wer eyiu playig a gainst someone as magnificent as jerom? thats wha ti thogutb jerom is a beaaitful human being"- Mr_Bramboy

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