Unofficial poll on moderation

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Re: Unofficial poll on moderation

Post by NyxAchlys9 »

edeholland wrote:Double post because I can.

Goodspeed wrote:
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Yup


If you think "moderating as little as possible" is a positive thing, is that also what you think other Community Team members can improve on? Or are there other reasons the different members get other ratings?

Btw I agree with the policy of moderating only when necessary but I wanted to keep the question neutral


Its very important to have moderation in a regular amount. It can be argued that you don't do much to moderate in some threads - especially in particular scheduling threads. However in terms of too thorough moderation (Sorry Hleung!) It can be very limiting to what the user is meant to write.

Balance is key in this area. I do agree that the rules are laid out and users should abide by the rules and with no ambiguity.
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Re: Unofficial poll on moderation

Post by edeholland »

I have been thinking about scheduling threads and how we can make them more effective. In the scheduling threads, sometimes people get hyped. They predict matchups, vetoes or ragequits and lag accusations. It would be a shame to completely deny all of that by deleting all off-topics posts.

However, scheduling is a lot harder (especially for the Media Team who have to keep track of ALL threads, not just one) when there are so many off-topic posts in each one.

I thought it might be a good idea to experiment with seperate discussion threads. From the RO8, when the most important matches happen, there will be a thread about every matchup for scheduling, and a seperate one for discussion. The discussion thread would be open for all members to share their predictions, jokes and other comments. The scheduling thread would be reserved for the two players + the Media Team. An example of a discussion thread is this one: viewtopic.php?f=308&t=12135, but they are very rare. The thread would also be good for any discussion around the betting.

From Group Stage to RO16, you would just have one general thread for each round.

While I have discussed this with some staff members, this is nothing official and will perhaps never be implemented. I just wanted to share my thoughts with the community
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Re: Unofficial poll on moderation

Post by NyxAchlys9 »

I think there was a staff thread of something along those lines. It's been a while but MCJim had a concept for keeping the scheduling threads private and only having one hype thread for the week or using the ESOCTV schedule for hype. Its a good step forward either way in terms of moderation :)
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Re: Unofficial poll on moderation

Post by EAGLEMUT »

edeholland wrote:I really like the poll and the discussion here. There is one thing that really suprised me though.

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Why does nobody think it's a good idea to actually try to solve grudges? Of course it can be funny, but most of the time I think it's annoying when some users can't discuss something normally, just because they can't stand each other.

Are you talking about the green option? Note that one is not present in the actual poll options, someone wrote that manually.
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Re: Unofficial poll on moderation

Post by Djigit »

Call me Nostradamus.
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Re: Unofficial poll on moderation

Post by edeholland »

Right, I missed that Eagle. Think it's a good option, but perhaps too optimistic.
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Re: Unofficial poll on moderation

Post by zoom »

edeholland wrote:I really like the poll and the discussion here. There is one thing that really suprised me though.

Image
Why does nobody think it's a good idea to actually try to solve grudges? Of course it can be funny, but most of the time I think it's annoying when some users can't discuss something normally, just because they can't stand each other.
IIRC that isn't an actual option, presumably because it's obviously nothing to do with moderating. I agree it's sensible in general, though. As evidenced by the relative lack of "not at all" respondents, some predictably failed to understand the meaning of the question, relative to the previous one. Respondents had just determined how and when they feel moderating should be done. Due to this, I think the question is whether to moderate more harshly in these cases, rather than whether to moderate at all, ignoring the previous question.
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Re: Unofficial poll on moderation

Post by Kaiserklein »

kami_ryu wrote:Also my moderation is really overrated. Half the time I see a report and dodge it. I only moderate when I feel it's blatantly necessary.

Yes, but maybe that's how moderating should be done. Sometimes I feel like some threads stay open for way too long (like my scheduling thread vs diarouga for example) while some others get locked for a cheating accusation about some blatant cheater. So yeah, "only when it's blatantly necessary" sounds good.


Another point I would like to do, linked to the "blatantly necessary" thing. At some point, I was flaming pecelot for not doing much for esoc. Then he showed me the background work he's doing, and I had to agree that it's a lot of work done. So yeah, the polls are definitely harsh for him, and that's sad.
However, it's not like it comes out of nowhere. The way I felt about pecelot's work seems to be, according to these polls, shared by a lot of people. It feels like he's only here to tell people that they posted in the wrong subforum, or that there already is a thread discussing the same topic and that people can use the search tool for that.
Imo, that's just the wrong stuff to do, because:

- Most people are lazy and won't ever check if there's already a similar thread existing (for example), no matter how many times they are told to do so;
- It's annoying the users;
- It really doesn't bring much value to the forums;
- It's probably a lot of work for pecelot.

To sum up, by doing that, pecelot is basically seen as a rather useless and annoying mod; while, in fact, he adds a lot of hidden value to ESOC.
That's why I think there should be more transparency about his background work, because it can be interesting for the users to read, and it also gives credit to pecelot for his time invested. On top of that, I think being more lenient about the subforums/duplicate threads/etc would be a good idea.
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Re: Unofficial poll on moderation

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Post by deleted_user0 »

Most of the warnings are given simply because some of the schoolbullied mods want to feel powerful once in their lifetime....

It's aoe3 forum... no need to ban anyone, unless someone is using a bot to spam 10 topics in a minute etc
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Re: Unofficial poll on moderation

Post by momuuu »

Moderation would be easier, more smooth and probably more effective if moderators would go with just deleting wrong posts more. Right now its either warn and lock a thread or do nothing. Sometimes just deleting a thread amd giving a heads up to the user or just deleting some nonsense posts creates less drama, makes the moderator's job easier and improves the reading experience of the average user.
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Re: Unofficial poll on moderation

Post by Gendarme »

Let's make moderation log public!!1!1!1!!1!
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Re: Unofficial poll on moderation

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Post by kami_ryu »

I disagree with deleting. Deleting should be last resort, if the post contains warez, porn, etc. Leave anything else up, leave a mod note that so and so is unacceptable. That's transparency. Deleting and editing posts are things that I heavily disagree with.

Also, when I say I dodge reports, I mean that I decide to let someone else deal with said report. I think sometimes the report is justified. I just think that I can't come up with intelligent moderator action to deal with said report.

All of this is made way easier if people could kick back and relax more, instead of less. Don't get angry at people, don't feel entitled, don't think that you're the only person on the forums with a valid point of view. Agreeing to disagree and not caring about things that don't truly matter makes everyone's lives easier.
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Re: Unofficial poll on moderation

Post by pecelot »

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Can all of those people suggest how it should look like?

Kaiserklein wrote:It feels like he's only here to tell people that they posted in the wrong subforum

I feel like Site Suggestions is a more-appropriate sub-forum for this thread. :chinese:
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Re: Unofficial poll on moderation

Post by Goodspeed »

Well it's not really a site suggestion. It's just data for you to use however you wish. Some of the results are pretty interesting, for example only 7 out of 53 people actually think a controversial thread should be locked. They are locked all the time as is. A large majority thinks off-topic should be moderated differently, and that it should be allowed to discuss moderation in public. Though I'm surprised about the amount of people who said "always and everywhere" there.
Also, a whopping 7 people "actually kinda like Trump". Who the fuck are you? Show yourselves!
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Re: Unofficial poll on moderation

Post by Gendarme »

Well, "always and everywhere" is not really different to "only in specific places". If it is a completely new topic of discussion regarding moderation it obviously does not go inside an already existing thread that is not about moderation, but talking about moderation in a topic (such as Kaiser vs diarouga) as the conversation (or drama) flows could be fine.

Assuming a person agrees with above, what would he vote?
Pay more attention to detail.
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Re: Unofficial poll on moderation

Post by Goodspeed »

Always and everywhere. The thing with that is that any moderation action would be discussed right away because there are always people who disagree with it. It would pollute threads.
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Re: Unofficial poll on moderation

Post by pecelot »

Well, exactly? So why would anyone want that?
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Re: Unofficial poll on moderation

Post by edeholland »

Jerom wrote:Moderation would be easier, more smooth and probably more effective if moderators would go with just deleting wrong posts more. Right now its either warn and lock a thread or do nothing. Sometimes just deleting a thread amd giving a heads up to the user or just deleting some nonsense posts creates less drama, makes the moderator's job easier and improves the reading experience of the average user.

I really wonder who else thinks we should delete more than we do now. I personally disagree because of what Kami said basically. I think it will create even more drama tbh
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Re: Unofficial poll on moderation

Post by Gendarme »

Goodspeed wrote:The thing with that is that any moderation action would be discussed right away because there are always people who disagree with it. It would pollute threads.
The rule in question generally isn't followed anyway, so it is practically already "always and everywhere" - and so far it has been working well, I think. I don't think that all moderation actions would be discussed right away. Only when moderation actions are controversial do we see disputes (which is why the current "always and everywhere" has been working so far). We are having too many controversial moderation actions currently, and that is the underlying issue that needs to be solved. I don't see an occasional "polluted thread" (I have yet to see one) nearly as big of a problem than the problems controversial moderation causes at the moment.

The question is thus how we can avoid moderation controversy, and it is not one with a simple answer. It is obviously not easy for non-staff members to have a lot of insight on the matter and discuss constructively as they do not see what happens behind the scenes, which is probably one of the reasons the rule exists. There is however a lot of room for improvement as it is clearly shown by the poll that either moderators are not correct with their actions a lot of times or people incorrectly think that they that moderators are not correct, or a combination of both. Now that this thread exists we might as well take the opportunity to try to figure out which of the above is the case and find a solution together.
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Re: Unofficial poll on moderation

Post by deleted_user »

Yeah I'd say I'm mostly happy with site moderation tbh. I personally err on the side of softer moderation (most days) whereas I feel current staff errs on the side of harsher moderation in certain cases. They are in no way overwhelmingly overbearing however. Mostly happy. This is a good discussion to have. I think semi frequent discussions about site moderation is in no way a bad thing and rather feels very healthy.
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Re: Unofficial poll on moderation

Post by zoom »

kami_ryu wrote:I disagree with deleting. Deleting should be last resort, if the post contains warez, porn, etc. Leave anything else up, leave a mod note that so and so is unacceptable. That's transparency. Deleting and editing posts are things that I heavily disagree with.

Also, when I say I dodge reports, I mean that I decide to let someone else deal with said report. I think sometimes the report is justified. I just think that I can't come up with intelligent moderator action to deal with said report.

All of this is made way easier if people could kick back and relax more, instead of less. Don't get angry at people, don't feel entitled, don't think that you're the only person on the forums with a valid point of view. Agreeing to disagree and not caring about things that don't truly matter makes everyone's lives easier.
Are you comparing pornography to warez and etc?
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Re: Unofficial poll on moderation

Post by Gendarme »

He is not. That is a comparison between pornography, warez, etc, and other things that do not qualify as etc.
Pay more attention to detail.
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Re: Unofficial poll on moderation

Post by Laurence Drake »

kami_ryu wrote:I disagree with deleting. Deleting should be last resort, if the post contains warez, porn, etc. Leave anything else up, leave a mod note that so and so is unacceptable. That's transparency. Deleting and editing posts are things that I heavily disagree with.

Also, when I say I dodge reports, I mean that I decide to let someone else deal with said report. I think sometimes the report is justified. I just think that I can't come up with intelligent moderator action to deal with said report.

All of this is made way easier if people could kick back and relax more, instead of less. Don't get angry at people, don't feel entitled, don't think that you're the only person on the forums with a valid point of view. Agreeing to disagree and not caring about things that don't truly matter makes everyone's lives easier.

A N G E R Y
Top quality poster.
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Re: Unofficial poll on moderation

Post by pecelot »

Gendarme wrote:
Goodspeed wrote:The thing with that is that any moderation action would be discussed right away because there are always people who disagree with it. It would pollute threads.
The rule in question generally isn't followed anyway, so it is practically already "always and everywhere" - and so far it has been working well, I think.

Not at all, we enforce this rule in the vast majority of cases.
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Re: Unofficial poll on moderation

Post by momuuu »

But then if you refuse to remove posts and also won't actually be strict about people consistently misbehaving then how can you actually enforce the rules?

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