Lay out the rules better?

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Lay out the rules better?

Post by fightinfrenchman »

Right now it seems like the rules of the forums are not enforced evenly by all mods. In fact, some of them seem almost completely arbitrary, with some behaviors resulting in warnings and bans for some people but not for others, and threads getting randomly moved between forum sections.
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Re: Lay out the rules better?

Post by fightinfrenchman »

For example, how does this not belong in AoE 3 General section: viewtopic.php?f=26&t=4165

But this does? viewtopic.php?f=19&t=4396
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Re: Lay out the rules better?

Post by DivineFire »

Upon arrival on the team, I was never impressed with the consistency of the moderation. As well as the unavailability of a complete set of rules and guidelines for the use of these forums. Moderation here has always been a scattered effort which I don't currently have the time to try and fix. As for the posts, I'm not in the right mindstate to address the issue.
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Re: Lay out the rules better?

Post by fightinfrenchman »

DivineFire wrote:Upon arrival on the team, I was never impressed with the consistency of the moderation. As well as the unavailability of a complete set of rules and guidelines for the use of these forums. Moderation here has always been a scattered effort which I don't currently have the time to try and fix. As for the posts, I'm not in the right mindstate to address the issue.


Not in the right mindstate? I agree that it's fun to get drunk but I wouldn't be moderating while under the influence.
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Re: Lay out the rules better?

Post by DivineFire »

I'm just exhausted is all. :P Technically more dangerous.
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Re: Lay out the rules better?

Post by evilcheadar »

Are you taking some kind of drugs or drinking?
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Re: Lay out the rules better?

Post by fightinfrenchman »

DivineFire wrote:I'm just exhausted is all. :P Technically more dangerous.


That would explain some things.
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Re: Lay out the rules better?

Post by DivineFire »

Don't try and explain too many things with it there guy.
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Re: Lay out the rules better?

Post by momuuu »

Moderation and the set of rules just seem very vague to me. Except for the rules on no cheater accusations.

Id personally like to see some stricter rules with regards to flaming/harassing other users and maybe also require a somewhat higher post standard.
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Re: Lay out the rules better?

Post by noissance »

A lot of problems with posts would be solved with a "Pest" filter feature.
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Re: Lay out the rules better?

Post by Garja »

There is a thread with forums rules & guidelines on the aoe3 general section. It's indeed pretty concise but it gives an idea of what you should and shouldn't post.
Right now the forum policy is to be pretty loose on moderation. And by that I essentially mean that we're being very tolerant for mild rule infringements.
If it was for me we would definetly have a higher post standard.
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Re: Lay out the rules better?

Post by fightinfrenchman »

Garja wrote:There is a thread with forums rules & guidelines on the aoe3 general section. It's indeed pretty concise but it gives an idea of what you should and shouldn't post.
Right now the forum policy is to be pretty loose on moderation. And by that I essentially mean that we're being very tolerant for mild rule infringements.
If it was for me we would definetly have a higher post standard.


Yes it would be nice if things could be more clearly defined. I don't see how the policy is to be "loose" on moderation, to me it seems like each mod can do whatever they want. None of the other mods moved my threads, they hadn't been posted in for over a week and a half but DivineFire suddenly decides they aren't good enough to be in the General section.
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Re: Lay out the rules better?

Post by Garja »

And what's wrong with having them in strategy instead lol
In any case I don't think there is the need of a policy on how mods are supposed to move threads.
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Re: Lay out the rules better?

Post by fightinfrenchman »

Garja wrote:And what's wrong with having them in strategy instead lol
In any case I don't think there is the need of a policy on how mods are supposed to move threads.


They're not in strategy, they were moved to Off Topic which frustrates me because they are not off topic.
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Re: Lay out the rules better?

Post by Garja »

Oh you mean the basement ones, well I guess they can be on aoe3 general
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Re: Lay out the rules better?

Post by fightinfrenchman »

Garja wrote:Oh you mean the basement ones, well I guess they can be on aoe3 general


Yeah that's what I figured, that's where I originally had them.
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Re: Lay out the rules better?

Post by _H2O »

I think they could have fit in either place. While they were technically related to aoe they were more of a blog style story post about games you played. I think if you want to post one thread to aoe General and add new stories to it then that would be fine. But don't make new topics for each one. I sent a similar pm about the tip of the day. I love the tip of the day, I think it just needs to get posted a little differently so it's clear.

Off topic it's a lot more free range. I think there a post for each one would be fine.

I don't think divine fire did anything wrong here. You guys are pretty strong personality on the forums. We could use some help from you guys to manage how many topics you are making.

As for stricter rules, we are trying to leave the forums loose on moderation so that people can all participate how they like to. Really we want more discussion and fun.

If you guys want stricter rules we can come up with some sort of posting standards and enforce it. :|
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Re: Lay out the rules better?

Post by fightinfrenchman »

_H2O wrote:I think they could have fit in either place. While they were technically related to aoe they were more of a blog style story post about games you played. I think if you want to post one thread to aoe General and add new stories to it then that would be fine. But don't make new topics for each one. I sent a similar pm about the tip of the day. I love the tip of the day, I think it just needs to get posted a little differently so it's clear.

I don't think divine fire did anything wrong here. You guys are pretty strong personality on the forums. We could use some help from you guys to manage how many topics you are making.

As for stricter rules, we are trying to leave the forums loose on moderation so that people can all participate how they like to. Really we want more discussion and fun.


I will concede the point about tip of the day. But my game analyses were so much less frequent it's a little bit ridiculous to even compare the two.
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Re: Lay out the rules better?

Post by fightinfrenchman »

I'm not asking for stricter rules, I'm asking for them to just be laid out and be consistently applied. My threads were fine for weeks but suddenly one mod sees them and decides they are not in a good place? That makes no sense.
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Re: Lay out the rules better?

Post by DivineFire »

You almost just accepted a moderation decision without arguing. Almost.
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Re: Lay out the rules better?

Post by fightinfrenchman »

DivineFire wrote:You almost just accepted a moderation decision without arguing. Almost.


Well Garja says they can be in General and that's where I posted them, but they aren't there.
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Re: Lay out the rules better?

Post by evilcheadar »

Basement game analysis posts have very much analysis into the actual game so they deserve to be in general and not say in some off topic bin where non aoe topics are discussed. We are glad to answer game specific and non game specific questions in those threads!
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Re: Lay out the rules better?

Post by iNcog »

I can see why people would want higher posting standards, but it quickly becomes a pain in the ass to actually moderate. Where do you set the limit between "good" and "bad"? What do you do with posters who post "bad" posts? Warning? Suspension? Just lock? You quickly find that that you need to be able to make two subjective judgement calls: one of the quality of the post and one of the moderation action required if quality isn't there.

Now, imagine that you make these subjective calls and now those calls are all contested, because they were made on subjective grounds. What one user doesn't mind, another user won't like. Where do you draw the line? Do you ban users because you or those who are friends with staff don't like them? There are a few users on ESOC which personally annoy me more than anything. I'm sure that this is also the case for other people. That doesn't, as far as I know, give me or any other staff the right to ban people just because. ESOC is supposed to be an open community for everyone. It should not be a closed one, reserved for staff and their friends.

I also don't see a problem with some light to moderate flaming between users. As long as we don't go into super toxic shit and that such flaming doesn't bog down a thread, where's the problem? We shouldn't be here to tell people what they should think or what should they post. Fuck that. ESOC should be here so that anyone can speak their mind as they want, discuss aoe3 as they want. As long as these loose rules aren't abused by being excessively toxic or annoying other users, then it's fine. I can see the grey area where some peoples' low quality posting may annoy a few other people, but then again, I don't see that happen too frequently here. Perhaps some users are too quickly annoyed?

That is why I personally push for as little moderation as possible, unless it's absolutely necessary. Moderation may seem loose: that's because it is. I personally prone loose moderation. Moderation should be done using common sense rather than enforcing arbitrary rules. Naturally, if some good rules which everyone agrees on can be found, then we should definitely look into including them. As long as such rules actually contribute to the community and profit everyone, rather than a select few.
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Garja wrote: ↑
20 Mar 2020, 21:46
I just hope DE is not going to implement all of the EP changes. Right now it is a big clusterfuck.
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Re: Lay out the rules better?

Post by fightinfrenchman »

iNcog wrote:I can see why people would want higher posting standards, but it quickly becomes a pain in the ass to actually moderate. Where do you set the limit between "good" and "bad"? What do you do with posters who post "bad" posts? Warning? Suspension? Just lock? You quickly find that that you need to be able to make two subjective judgement calls: one of the quality of the post and one of the moderation action required if quality isn't there.

Now, imagine that you make these subjective calls and now those calls are all contested, because they were made on subjective grounds. What one user doesn't mind, another user won't like. Where do you draw the line? Do you ban users because you or those who are friends with staff don't like them? There are a few users on ESOC which personally annoy me more than anything. I'm sure that this is also the case for other people. That doesn't, as far as I know, give me or any other staff the right to ban people just because. ESOC is supposed to be an open community for everyone. It should not be a closed one, reserved for staff and their friends.

I also don't see a problem with some light to moderate flaming between users. As long as we don't go into super toxic shit and that such flaming doesn't bog down a thread, where's the problem? We shouldn't be here to tell people what they should think or what should they post. Fuck that. ESOC should be here so that anyone can speak their mind as they want, discuss aoe3 as they want. As long as these loose rules aren't abused by being excessively toxic or annoying other users, then it's fine. I can see the grey area where some peoples' low quality posting may annoy a few other people, but then again, I don't see that happen too frequently here. Perhaps some users are too quickly annoyed?

That is why I personally push for as little moderation as possible, unless it's absolutely necessary. Moderation may seem loose: that's because it is. I personally prone loose moderation. Moderation should be done using common sense rather than enforcing arbitrary rules. Naturally, if some good rules which everyone agrees on can be found, then we should definitely look into including them. As long as such rules actually contribute to the community and profit everyone, rather than a select few.


I can certainly see where you are coming from. Do you have any thoughts on my threads being moved? I know you saw those threads and did not make the call to move them.
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Re: Lay out the rules better?

Post by iNcog »

I have no problem whatsoever with those threads being moved. They weren't closed or deleted.
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Garja wrote: ↑
20 Mar 2020, 21:46
I just hope DE is not going to implement all of the EP changes. Right now it is a big clusterfuck.

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