Site Rules Suggestion

User avatar
New Zealand zoom
Gendarme
Posts: 9314
Joined: Apr 26, 2015
ESO: Funnu
Location: New_Sweland

Site Rules Suggestion

Post by zoom »

Public discussion of site policy, rules and moderation should be permitted.
User avatar
Canada forgrin
Howdah
Posts: 1873
Joined: Apr 27, 2015
ESO: Forgrin

Re: Site Rules Suggestion

Post by forgrin »

zoom wrote:Public discussion of site policy, rules and moderation should be permitted.

+1 no reason this site needs to be some weird oligarchy with speech restrictions (edited)
https://www.twitch.tv/forgin14

"WTF WHERE ARE MY 10 FALCS" - AraGun_OP
User avatar
No Flag fightinfrenchman
Ninja
Donator 04
Posts: 23505
Joined: Oct 17, 2015
Location: Pennsylvania

Re: Site Rules Suggestion

Post by fightinfrenchman »

I have to agree with this
Dromedary Scone Mix is not Alone Mix
Image
France iNcog
Ninja
Posts: 13236
Joined: Mar 7, 2015

Re: Site Rules Suggestion

Post by iNcog »

Yes, please.

If this was locked on the grounds of being against "rule 2", then get rid of rule 2: viewtopic.php?f=28&t=5442

Public discussion of site rules, ESOC patch and other things should be allowed. It's fine to ask that it remains respectful or that it remains only in site suggestions or something, but it HAS to be allowed somewhere in public, where everyone can see.
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/incog_aoe
Garja wrote: ↑
20 Mar 2020, 21:46
I just hope DE is not going to implement all of the EP changes. Right now it is a big clusterfuck.
User avatar
No Flag fightinfrenchman
Ninja
Donator 04
Posts: 23505
Joined: Oct 17, 2015
Location: Pennsylvania

Re: Site Rules Suggestion

Post by fightinfrenchman »

iNcog wrote:Yes, please.

If this was locked on the grounds of being against "rule 2", then get rid of rule 2: viewtopic.php?f=28&t=5442

Public discussion of site rules, ESOC patch and other things should be allowed. It's fine to ask that it remains respectful or that it remains only in site suggestions or something, but it HAS to be allowed somewhere in public, where everyone can see.


Yesh this is one of the issues I had with moderation in the past, getting warned for discussing the moderation. It shouldn't be a secret, people should be allowed to speak out (as long as it doesn't devolve into flaming)
Dromedary Scone Mix is not Alone Mix
Image
User avatar
United States of America musketeer925
Retired Contributor
Donator 01
Posts: 2483
Joined: Mar 28, 2015
ESO: musketeer925

Re: Site Rules Suggestion

Post by musketeer925 »

I wasn't involved in the thread linked abov (in fact I haven't read it), but my opinion is as follows:

There are two kinds of moderation discussions.

1.) Users wish to discuss policies or individual rules and the reasons for them.

2.) Users want to discuss why a specific item was moderated.

#1 is great. #2 is a PM issue between the person whose received disciplinary actions and the moderators and is best kept between the involved parties. This is because the majority of situations are due to a conflict between different parties on the forum, and will almost always devolve into a flame war between those parties.
France Kaiserklein
Pro Player
Posts: 10278
Joined: Jun 6, 2015
Location: Paris
GameRanger ID: 5529322

Re: Site Rules Suggestion

Post by Kaiserklein »

zoom wrote:Public discussion of site policy, rules and moderation should be permitted.

"Public discussion of moderation policy is explicitly prohibited per rule number 2 in the forum rules post."
End of the story bro, you are not allowed to dicuss this.
Soon locked
Image
Image
Image
LoOk_tOm wrote:I have something in particular against Kaisar (GERMANY NOOB mercenary LAMME FOREVER) And the other people (noobs) like suck kaiser ... just this ..
User avatar
No Flag fightinfrenchman
Ninja
Donator 04
Posts: 23505
Joined: Oct 17, 2015
Location: Pennsylvania

Re: Site Rules Suggestion

Post by fightinfrenchman »

musketeer925 wrote:I wasn't involved in the thread linked abov (in fact I haven't read it), but my opinion is as follows:

There are two kinds of moderation discussions.

1.) Users wish to discuss policies or individual rules and the reasons for them.

2.) Users want to discuss why a specific item was moderated.

#1 is great. #2 is a PM issue between the person whose received disciplinary actions and the moderators and is best kept between the involved parties. This is because the majority of situations are due to a conflict between different parties on the forum, and will almost always devolve into a flame war between those parties.


Discussions like number one have gotten locked in the past though
Dromedary Scone Mix is not Alone Mix
Image
No Flag deleted_user
Ninja
Posts: 14364
Joined: Mar 26, 2015

Re: Site Rules Suggestion

Post by deleted_user »

I agree. I saw "rule 2" and thought that no discussion of moderation policies was a bit much.

But people often have a hard time finding the line between discussion and useless bickering.

However, I've been apart of a good deal of internet communities (wow that sounds lame as fuck) and transparent moderation has always been the best option. Any community where the users are overwhelming upset at the moderators usually doesn't end well. There has to be some mutual respect and understanding between the two. I think removing or editing rule 2 would be a step in the right direction.
Netherlands momuuu
Ninja
Posts: 14237
Joined: Jun 7, 2015
ESO: Jerom_

Re: Site Rules Suggestion

Post by momuuu »

I think this was mostly an issue with translating the actual moderation guidelines to rules. The guidelines state:
"Delete for:
2 - Public complaints concerning moderation (especially those directed a particular staff member) can just be deleted, as it just opens the site staff up to more criticism. They can also be left alone in the site suggestions board if they are civil ex: “I would like it if the ESOC staff lightened up (or cracked down) on moderation more"

In other words, the nuance is that a civil moderation discussion is allowed. The thing being stressed here is civil. Last topic was, imo, not civil and/or constructive enough, it was mostly a complaint rather than a discussion. A topic like this one seems, at least so far, very civil to me so should, in my opinion be allowed.
User avatar
United States of America gustavusadolphus
Lancer
Posts: 520
Joined: Oct 19, 2015

Re: Site Rules Suggestion

Post by gustavusadolphus »

forgrin wrote:
zoom wrote:Public discussion of site policy, rules and moderation should be permitted.

+1 no reason this site needs to be some weird oligarchy with speech restrictions (edited)


HERE HERE!!!!
10000 gallon fiberglass, FNS plus DE filter 48 square foot, ray pack Mini Max 512 BTU gas heater, one Sip n Oodle, NO ZEOSAND
France iNcog
Ninja
Posts: 13236
Joined: Mar 7, 2015

Re: Site Rules Suggestion

Post by iNcog »

deleted_user wrote:
But people often have a hard time finding the line between discussion and useless bickering.



Yep. Remember that moderation most of the time is subjective anyway. Closing threads more often than not comes down to taking things in their proper context and taking history into account when making decisions. Unless the user is being blantantly problematic, it's almost impossible to be objectively good at moderation and please everyone.

For an inherently subjective thing, it's important to be flexible, understanding and communicative on how things are done and why they were done. This at very least allows for compensation for the fact that you can't please everyone. At very least, make sure to be transparent and ensure fairness through listening.

Listening skills and taking things into context are super important. The latter is something I actually wasn't good with when I was site-staff. Gotta be present a lot, understanding, etc. Remember that this goes both ways, sometimes you gotta understand where mods are coming from.

So H2O opening up the moderation feedback thread is a very good start. I was a little worried yesterday but recent developments have washed those away. Keep in mind that most people on the ESOC team mean well, which is one of the most important things you could ask for. Forgive mistakes when they happen, but make sure to discuss mistakes when those take place.
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/incog_aoe
Garja wrote: ↑
20 Mar 2020, 21:46
I just hope DE is not going to implement all of the EP changes. Right now it is a big clusterfuck.
User avatar
United States of America iCourt
Retired Contributor
Posts: 700
Joined: Jan 14, 2016
ESO: iCourt
Location: Monterey, California

Re: Site Rules Suggestion

Post by iCourt »

And you left the admin team why again? Should ask to come back on...
User avatar
Canada DivineFire
Lancer
Posts: 971
Joined: Mar 3, 2015

Re: Site Rules Suggestion

Post by DivineFire »

Rule 2 in the forum rules and guidelines post has been adjusted to allow discussion of moderation actions in the thread that H2O has made specifically for that purpose.
Taunt 3

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 5 guests

Which top 10 players do you wish to see listed?

All-time

Active last two weeks

Active last month

Supremacy

Treaty

Official

ESOC Patch

Treaty Patch

1v1 Elo

2v2 Elo

3v3 Elo

Power Rating

Which streams do you wish to see listed?

Twitch

Age of Empires III

Age of Empires IV