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Netherlands momuuu
Ninja
Posts: 12566
Location: Utrecht, The Netherlands

08 Jan 2018, 02:23

As of EP 4.0 fishing boats have been reduced in cost to 70 wood. To compensate for this buff, schooners was nerfed. The asian equivalent was not changed in terms of its cost reduction though and now makes fishing boats go down to only 50w plus it gives a dock rickshaw (saving you a valuable 200w). This card can be smoothly incorporated into the china FF build order which results in a faster, yet more economical FF.

Instead of doing the slow thing of chopping 100w for a second village, to then ship the northen refugees card (granting 3 vills), I think its possible right now to only get 1 village, ship the dock card and then use the remaining 100w to get two boats. Any wood treasure can simply be converted into more fishing ships and you can chop with a few vills to get more boats. 50w boats are obviously great as European civs would even go for schooners to acces those, but schooners didnt give anything in the short term. The asian variant gives you a free dock with it, thus smoothly incorporating this into the standard build orders is easily done.

The result is that youre quicker to age 3, with more eco (and you actually save villager seconds as you only need 3 vills on the wonder for a smooth variant) in the forms of fishing ships and, if you please so, the option to train more fishing ships at a really good price (50w for 1 vill is great really, its on par with stagecoach in terms of investment cost and much better than banks for example). The only downside is that you only have 1 village and thus are more susceptible to rushes. On the other hand, unraidable villagers are pretty nice against rushes and china can get extra villages in time with 700w.

I felt like sharing this. It could actually be a top build order.

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Canada Mitoe
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08 Jan 2018, 03:19

I kept thinking dock could be good to add a few extra vills with China, but for some reason I always thought I would have to chop an extra 100w for the dock instead of just sending a dock rickshaw. Not sure how I didn't think of this.

Seems like a decent build, and while I'd hesitate to call it a top build order, I'm sure there are plenty of matchups where it could be a good option. Seems like the age time is the main selling point of this BO. Especially if you happen to get a few solid wood treasures.
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United States of America IntrepidExplorer
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10 Jan 2018, 06:06

Wow, that's genius. Thanks Jerom!
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United States of America noissance
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12 Jan 2018, 01:52

can this build work with japan as well? with the dock wagon i mean...
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Netherlands momuuu
Ninja
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Location: Utrecht, The Netherlands

12 Jan 2018, 23:09

noissance wrote:can this build work with japan as well? with the dock wagon i mean...

Probably the worst one of the bunch, as they are set if they make it to lategame at all anyways.

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Russia yurashic
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Location: Russia

13 Jan 2018, 18:06

Yeah it is a good build, I do the same on RE but I chop 40 wood to make 2 boats in age 1. EP buffed it a lot.
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Canada Mitoe
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13 Jan 2018, 19:59

Jerom wrote:
noissance wrote:can this build work with japan as well? with the dock wagon i mean...

Probably the worst one of the bunch, as they are set if they make it to lategame at all anyways.

I think it can work just fine with Japan to be honest. If you compare the value of a 50w fishing boat to a 75w-97w shrine, you're getting a lot more out of the fishing boat.
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Germany yemshi
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Location: Mainz, Germany

13 Jan 2018, 20:03

How would one get 97w shrines?
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Great Britain WickedCossack
Retired Contributor
Posts: 1470

13 Jan 2018, 21:01

Someone did this strat this tournament on indonesia, I thought it was goongoon but I can't seem to find the game.

Anyone remember who it was?
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New Zealand zoom
Gendarme
Posts: 6886
ESO: Funnu
Location: Ramadanistan

13 Jan 2018, 21:16

East Indiamen was changed. From -30w to -20w.
sudmakmak wrote:This patch Keshik don't have buff anti cavalry = noob patch2.0
and don't have nerf hard japan = noob patch2.0
because all more noob player at this patch = noob logic.
or they maybe have boyfriend.(japanese boyfriend fuck your ass them)
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United States of America SirCallen
Jaeger
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Location: Midwest

13 Jan 2018, 21:36

Sioux water is now OP too
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France Kaiserklein
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13 Jan 2018, 21:38

The build is probably good in some cases. The problem is that I'm not sure going for a TP start isn't better than getting this eco boost. Being able to get a unit shipment after 700g to defend a rush/raids, or being able to ship 700w after 700g while still having always a shipment ready upon fortress, is probably more valuable whenever facing a rather aggressive civ. And if you're facing a greedy civ, you might want these shipments yourself to apply pressure. But maybe it's the way to go on a no TP map.
Also I'm afraid of what happens in case of a 2 caravels shipment.
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Canada Mitoe
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13 Jan 2018, 22:19

yemshi wrote:How would one get 97w shrines?

Is that not the cost of a shrine with Kami but no Port consulate? Or maybe it's 93w. Not sure. I always get the shrine costs from the old AS FP confused with the current patch.
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Serbia sirmusket
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Location: Australia

13 Jan 2018, 23:51

Mitoe wrote:
yemshi wrote:How would one get 97w shrines?

Is that not the cost of a shrine with Kami but no Port consulate? Or maybe it's 93w. Not sure. I always get the shrine costs from the old AS FP confused with the current patch.

Ya it's 93w without port conso, but with karni.
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Germany yemshi
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ESO: yemshi
Location: Mainz, Germany

14 Jan 2018, 06:29

That's was not the question though.
How would you get the dock rikshaw for 50w boats AND kami? You'd have to trade off your port consulate for a TP. I mean, you could but if you TP I don't think you can be as passive. Besides with boat production you would get out maybe to two shrines in transition.
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Brazil macacoalbino
Lancer
Posts: 852
ESO: MacacoAlbino

15 Jan 2018, 19:30

Kaiserklein wrote:The build is probably good in some cases. The problem is that I'm not sure going for a TP start isn't better than getting this eco boost. Being able to get a unit shipment after 700g to defend a rush/raids, or being able to ship 700w after 700g while still having always a shipment ready upon fortress, is probably more valuable whenever facing a rather aggressive civ. And if you're facing a greedy civ, you might want these shipments yourself to apply pressure. But maybe it's the way to go on a no TP map.
Also I'm afraid of what happens in case of a 2 caravels shipment.


700res killing 300 that paid for some of its own cost is ok, as long as the caravels are not useful for anything else.

You can also ship 2 vels for defense and have defenders advantage if you dont want to give up the water for some reason.
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