how to beat aztecs with french

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how to beat aztecs with french

Post by agrondergermane »

what should be the standard against an aztec rush... if there is something like that?
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Re: how to beat aztecs with french

Post by tedere12 »

you can either do bow musk hus in age 2 or go age 3 and go for a cuir heavy army with skirms to kill the pikes. I am not sure what the pros prefer but I'd rather do a semi ff (houses behind TC because they will get sieged!).
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Re: how to beat aztecs with french

Post by aligator92 »

go heavy on hussars and add some musk to pick off his pumas. use your cdb (with market hp upgrade) to help out and you should be fine. I feel like french is the best civ against aztec
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Re: how to beat aztecs with french

Post by yurashic »

Musk huss.
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Re: how to beat aztecs with french

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Post by P i k i l i c »

Diarouga wrote:Aztecs: It's another controversial match-up, some like to play it in colonial, with a lot of hussars and some bows (because the only anti-cav unit Aztecs have is the pike who die very fast to mm, bows and coureurs), and some prefer to semi ff.
I don't really have an opinion. I would say that if you can age without losing too many buildings you should do it, and if the opponent goes to the 3rd/4th ages, you need to be very aggressive in early fortress.
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Re: how to beat aztecs with french

Post by adderbrain5 »

it seems like every other day that I read a ridiculous post where some goober noob was totally and helplessly overwhelmed by an equally noob based rush only to think that he needs some incredible strategy against it in order to stand any possible chance to survive. When in fact it is as the above gentlemen have said,French are in a great position to survive any rush from most any civ due to the extreme difficulty in outrunning killing CDB and matching their gather rate. I've played all in rushes where with just a few surviving CDB the enemy was able to elude whatever was left of my 4 kanya shipment until suddenly ".....advanced to fortress age" and brought canon up on my eco less ass.I strongggggly digress!!!
Musk huss, starting with musket and maybe first shipment is 3 hussar or xbox depending if he is sending mace or something else. You can easily scout this with your OP french scout near his base to know how much pop space he has.Surviving a rush is all about scouting and keeping on your toes and being flexible. If you survive the first minutes as french its smooth sailing from there...
and its less about stopping him or worrying about what he is doing than being on top of your own shit.
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Re: how to beat aztecs with french

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Post by tedere12 »

says the best iro player
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Re: how to beat aztecs with french

Post by deleted_user0 »

P i k i l i c wrote:
Diarouga wrote:Aztecs: It's another controversial match-up, some like to play it in colonial, with a lot of hussars and some bows (because the only anti-cav unit Aztecs have is the pike who die very fast to mm, bows and coureurs), and some prefer to semi ff.
I don't really have an opinion. I would say that if you can age without losing too many buildings you should do it, and if the opponent goes to the 3rd/4th ages, you need to be very aggressive in early fortress.


this is basically all there is about the mu. vs agressive coyote mace pike you should make alot of huss, and raid a bit while sending 8 bow and making like 10 more bows to 1 shot pikes.

I think france can play two ways vs the FI, a very agressive 10 min timing either in colonial (consider making 10 pikes to siege the firepit while the other units fight) or an early falc cuir skir timing in age3 around 10 mins as well.
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Re: how to beat aztecs with french

Post by lemmings121 »

tbh a lame aztec all in rush is hard to stop with any civ, pretty sure a semi ff can only survive if the aztec decides to ship wp or vills in the middle of the rush, a true all in lammer will take your tc down....

and even tho musk huss is good, it inst that easy, mace obliterate musks if let him kite, so you have to engage with your cav, and your need decent micro to survive the mace coyo pike attack move (the best thing is the cdb, who will tank like 200 mace shots :huh: )
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Re: how to beat aztecs with french

Post by evilcheadar »

I never understand why people think an all in rush is lame. Takes skill and balls to pull off, otherwise, everyone would be doing it.
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Re: how to beat aztecs with french

Post by Darwin_ »

Huss heavy musk huss with your cav in two control groups, or semi/straight-ff into skirm/cuir/cannons.
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Re: how to beat aztecs with french

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Post by macacoalbino »

No TP Hus musk vs aztec rush on cascade range. A little overextention from my opponent led to a win.
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[EP2 SP] Lukas_L99[AZ] vs MacacoAlbino[FR] - ESOC Cascade Range.age3yrec
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Re: how to beat aztecs with french

Post by deleted_user0 »

lemmings121 wrote:tbh a lame aztec all in rush is hard to stop with any civ, pretty sure a semi ff can only survive if the aztec decides to ship wp or vills in the middle of the rush, a true all in lammer will take your tc down....

and even tho musk huss is good, it inst that easy, mace obliterate musks if let him kite, so you have to engage with your cav, and your need decent micro to survive the mace coyo pike attack move (the best thing is the cdb, who will tank like 200 mace shots :huh: )


thats why you go huss bow
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Re: how to beat aztecs with french

Post by fei123456 »

I was wondering: if start musk bow hussar, but aztec send 3wp and ff, should I follow up, or try to kill him in age 2?
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Re: how to beat aztecs with french

Post by pecelot »

evilcheadar wrote:I never understand why people think an all in rush is lame. Takes skill and balls to pull off, otherwise, everyone would be doing it.

Wait, doesn't everyone just do that?
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Re: how to beat aztecs with french

Post by evilcheadar »

pecelot wrote:
evilcheadar wrote:I never understand why people think an all in rush is lame. Takes skill and balls to pull off, otherwise, everyone would be doing it.

Wait, doesn't everyone just do that?

Nope, most do greedy as possible in most MU
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Re: how to beat aztecs with french

Post by Kaiserklein »

evilcheadar wrote:I never understand why people think an all in rush is lame. Takes skill and balls to pull off, otherwise, everyone would be doing it.

Because it basically relies on your opponent being mapscrewed, which means you might lose because of bad luck and not because your opponent outplayed you (ofc mapscrews can make you lose even if you're not getting rushed, but it's obviously less of a problem). It's also super easy to go all in and rush, it takes much more skill to defend.

On topic : I think the safest way to play it is to go for a timing push of his bh, with full bow cav, using wood crates for the bows, and then switching to musk huss or aging up (depending on how it goes). I would do like stable start 4 cdbs, 700w mix rax and make bows + houses, 600w more bows and houses, (can add 700g if you have enough food in base left to mass some huss and maybe also a few musks), 8 bows and push.
If he's going all in though, this kind of timing is too late, so you should probs just ship bows first or 2nd card and use cdbs + mm and huss to trap. But it's hard to know if he's gonna all in, so I'd say 4 cdbs first anyway is your best bet (when you have at least a bit of food) followed by 8 bows if he goes all in, and 700w otherwise.
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Re: how to beat aztecs with french

Post by fei123456 »

Minutemen and cdb kill puma easily, so you don't need to send 8 xbow first.
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Re: how to beat aztecs with french

Post by evilcheadar »

Kaiserklein wrote:
evilcheadar wrote:I never understand why people think an all in rush is lame. Takes skill and balls to pull off, otherwise, everyone would be doing it.

Because it basically relies on your opponent being mapscrewed, which means you might lose because of bad luck and not because your opponent outplayed you (ofc mapscrews can make you lose even if you're not getting rushed, but it's obviously less of a problem). It's also super easy to go all in and rush, it takes much more skill to defend.

On topic : I think the safest way to play it is to go for a timing push of his bh, with full bow cav, using wood crates for the bows, and then switching to musk huss or aging up (depending on how it goes). I would do like stable start 4 cdbs, 700w mix rax and make bows + houses, 600w more bows and houses, (can add 700g if you have enough food in base left to mass some huss and maybe also a few musks), 8 bows and push.
If he's going all in though, this kind of timing is too late, so you should probs just ship bows first or 2nd card and use cdbs + mm and huss to trap. But it's hard to know if he's gonna all in, so I'd say 4 cdbs first anyway is your best bet (when you have at least a bit of food) followed by 8 bows if he goes all in, and 700w otherwise.

I disagree, the opponent doesn't need to be mapscrewed for an all in rush to work. It takes very particular micro and finesse to do enough damage and not overcommit and lose all your units to a minutemen+unit shipment pop.
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Re: how to beat aztecs with french

Post by agrondergermane »

evilcheadar wrote:
Kaiserklein wrote:
evilcheadar wrote:I never understand why people think an all in rush is lame. Takes skill and balls to pull off, otherwise, everyone would be doing it.

Because it basically relies on your opponent being mapscrewed, which means you might lose because of bad luck and not because your opponent outplayed you (ofc mapscrews can make you lose even if you're not getting rushed, but it's obviously less of a problem). It's also super easy to go all in and rush, it takes much more skill to defend.

On topic : I think the safest way to play it is to go for a timing push of his bh, with full bow cav, using wood crates for the bows, and then switching to musk huss or aging up (depending on how it goes). I would do like stable start 4 cdbs, 700w mix rax and make bows + houses, 600w more bows and houses, (can add 700g if you have enough food in base left to mass some huss and maybe also a few musks), 8 bows and push.
If he's going all in though, this kind of timing is too late, so you should probs just ship bows first or 2nd card and use cdbs + mm and huss to trap. But it's hard to know if he's gonna all in, so I'd say 4 cdbs first anyway is your best bet (when you have at least a bit of food) followed by 8 bows if he goes all in, and 700w otherwise.

I disagree, the opponent doesn't need to be mapscrewed for an all in rush to work. It takes very particular micro and finesse to do enough damage and not overcommit and lose all your units to a minutemen+unit shipment pop.

if u don't overcommit it's not rly an all-in rush, than u play more like steady pressure.
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Re: how to beat aztecs with french

Post by evilcheadar »

agrondergermane wrote:
evilcheadar wrote:
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I disagree, the opponent doesn't need to be mapscrewed for an all in rush to work. It takes very particular micro and finesse to do enough damage and not overcommit and lose all your units to a minutemen+unit shipment pop.

if u don't overcommit it's not rly an all-in rush, than u play more like steady pressure.

Overcommiting is just plain failing to execute properly, and losing too many units for not enough gain. The rush is not just right clicking on TC and hoping for the besht.
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Re: how to beat aztecs with french

Post by agrondergermane »

evilcheadar wrote:
agrondergermane wrote:
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if u don't overcommit it's not rly an all-in rush, than u play more like steady pressure.

Overcommiting is just plain failing to execute properly, and losing too many units for not enough gain. The rush is not just right clicking on TC and hoping for the besht.

ok just tell me, wtf is an all-in rush?
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Re: how to beat aztecs with french

Post by evilcheadar »

agrondergermane wrote:
evilcheadar wrote:
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Overcommiting is just plain failing to execute properly, and losing too many units for not enough gain. The rush is not just right clicking on TC and hoping for the besht.

ok just tell me, wtf is an all-in rush?

An all in rush is a rush that hinges on the success of doing enough damage with the opening strike. There generally is no option for a complete retreat to base and booming, that is unless you did horrendous damage where you can actually outboom them with your limited eco and for some reason don't want to just finish them off. I would say the word overcommitting implies you failed in some way.
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Re: how to beat aztecs with french

Post by Papist »

tedere12 wrote:you can either do bow musk hus in age 2 or go age 3 and go for a cuir heavy army with skirms to kill the pikes. I am not sure what the pros prefer but I'd rather do a semi ff (houses behind TC because they will get sieged!).


I don't know what level OP is playing at, but most people below captain will rush fast enough (not that it's a good strategy) that you will die if you don't have some sort of age 2 response on the way. Musk/Huss just sounds a lot safer.
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Re: how to beat aztecs with french

Post by Kaiserklein »

Without mapscrew, and if the match up is fair, there is tbh no way that an all in rush wins. The reason is simple : theoretically, in a fair match up, your opponent can just go a bit more greedy than you when you rush, and get away with it because he has defender's avantage (tc fire, mm, can use vils to fight, batches of units + shipments popping directly in the fight). So if you go all in, he should still be able to hold thanks to these, and then push out thanks to his superior eco.

Whereas if you're not all in, then you might be able to mass enough after the rush, when your opponent tries to push out to break your fb and take mapcontrol. So all in rush just relies on the fact that 1) your opponent sucks and dies to the early pressure or 2) he has not enough resources in base to get a big enough mass of units to break your fb or 3) he didn't scout the rush and you just win because it's cheese.
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