Is Aztec an undiscovered civ?

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China fei123456
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Is Aztec an undiscovered civ?

Post by fei123456 »

Aztec is a civ that have countless possbilities, however in recent tournament games there're only two extreme ways to play them:
1. 700w-(5v)-unit unit unit, fight, win or lose
2. FI
Theoratically, there should be some roads between these two.

My questions:
1. When should I send 3wp? (and 5v)
Aztec can always have tons of xp in early games, but every shipment needs more xp than the last one. So after a timing with 4-5 unit shipments, Aztec will find himself in an bad situation: what should I do?
3wp/5v: too slow. 10wp is even slower, and 4wp don't help much: even 4wp with xp dance can't bring you more shipments (you already sends tons of cards before, thus you have to wait for many extra xp).
600w/600g: mediocre choice. Generally you have only 1 warhut then, and without 5v steel trap you can't really spam so fast from 2 warhuts.
age up: if I'm playing an euro civ this should be good, but Aztec don't have fast age up then, and they have to upgrade everything.
So, is the "greedy" bo, fast age up-3wp-5v, available in some situations?

2. Age up with 2 skull/warchief upgrade? (colonial)
2 skull age up is at least good against an India 11/10 rush. skip 700, go 10mace 6puma 9mace, kill his agra, then adapt. If I age up fast, 700w-10mace, I can still hold but will lose some eco (I have to wait for 80s for 10mace to arrive).
Also, these 2 choices can let aztec age up fast to fortress age. Is it necessary? I'm not sure.
2 skull can help you kill his tp/defend hussar raiding, but warchief can have better late game. Skull will die sooner or later, but you can use your insane warchief again and again.

3. Fortress play?
Aztec fortress is mediocre, but is it really not available? ERK are insanely good sometimes, but if they don't have amount they're nothing special. Sadly I can't build noble hut in age 2.

4. ATP/3tp travois?
We all say this is a tp meta, but no one use these 2 cards.
TP>wp, or WP>tp?
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Re: Is Aztec an undiscovered civ?

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Post by tedere12 »

send 3 wp after 700w and dance for 10 wp, this way you will have 10 wp when your enemy tries to break your contain, plus have the 10+9 maces for later(when enemy pushes).
you dont need to do atp/3tp travois. 700w and 600w are better cards. you can ship them in a row and research stagecoach too with the res from crates.
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Re: Is Aztec an undiscovered civ?

Post by yemshi »

1TP>1WP but 4WP> 4 TP's.
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Re: Is Aztec an undiscovered civ?

Post by forgrin »

The way I see it is...
1. Azzy won't out-eco a euro civ without a full firepit, so you should probably always send 3wp at some point (unless you've killed 10+ vills, then just do whatever). Once you have 10wp you can outboom anyone with fertility dance (except maybe Ports).
2. Fortress play isn't available because of what Coup said, noble hut + having to upgrade units and mediocre shipments just makes it bad. ERK are decent, but to really rely on them you probably need the 1k gold shipment to increase their range, and mace are a bad direct substitute for skirmishers (you need to use them differently).
3. Industrial is good because it allows you to have a strong unit comp (mace + skull) without needing noble huts, plus the guard upgrades are really cheap so you can add coyo when necessary. There are also some actually decent unit shipments here too. This + warchief is what makes the FI good.
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Re: Is Aztec an undiscovered civ?

Post by deleted_user »

3wp card is perhaps overrated as azzy for standard colonial play.
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Re: Is Aztec an undiscovered civ?

Post by forgrin »

deleted_user wrote:3wp card is perhaps overrated as azzy for standard colonial play.

If you're not gonna dance for more wp at some point then probably, but if you're going for 10wp then 3wp speeds that up significantly.
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Re: Is Aztec an undiscovered civ?

Post by pecelot »

Please, do not rediscover it until the War Chief bug is fixed :mad:
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Re: Is Aztec an undiscovered civ?

Post by Garja »

Couprider wrote:
My questions:
1. When should I send 3wp? (and 5v)
Aztec can always have tons of xp in early games, but every shipment needs more xp than the last one. So after a timing with 4-5 unit shipments, Aztec will find himself in an bad situation: what should I do?
3wp/5v: too slow. 10wp is even slower, and 4wp don't help much: even 4wp with xp dance can't bring you more shipments (you already sends tons of cards before, thus you have to wait for many extra xp).
600w/600g: mediocre choice. Generally you have only 1 warhut then, and without 5v steel trap you can't really spam so fast from 2 warhuts.
age up: if I'm playing an euro civ this should be good, but Aztec don't have fast age up then, and they have to upgrade everything.
So, is the "greedy" bo, fast age up-3wp-5v, available in some situations?
700w 3wp 600w 5v etc.
700w 3wp 5v 4v
700w 600w 3wp 5v etc.
3wp 5v 4v
Or just send them later when everything useful has been sent already. Note that sending themmearly means youmleave them on xp for a while to repay for themselves.

2. Age up with 2 skull/warchief upgrade? (colonial)
2 skull age up is at least good against an India 11/10 rush. skip 700, go 10mace 6puma 9mace, kill his agra, then adapt. If I age up fast, 700w-10mace, I can still hold but will lose some eco (I have to wait for 80s for 10mace to arrive).
Also, these 2 choices can let aztec age up fast to fortress age. Is it necessary? I'm not sure.
2 skull can help you kill his tp/defend hussar raiding, but warchief can have better late game. Skull will die sooner or later, but you can use your insane warchief again and again.
No it is just bad everything considered. You can do much better rush/timings with fast age up
3. Fortress play?
Aztec fortress is mediocre, but is it really not available? ERK are insanely good sometimes, but if they don't have amount they're nothing special. Sadly I can't build noble hut in age 2.
All TWC civs have OP fortress but Azrecs are a colo civ so semi ff arent really viable (not moe than a brit or Jap semi). You can try yourself: 700w 5v 600g with WH age up and a TP in transition or 3wp 5v 600g and no TP. You will find itmis just suboptimal,compared to other cav semi.
4. ATP/3tp travois?
We all say this is a tp meta, but no one use these 2 cards.
TP>wp, or WP>tp?
700w 600w and go stagecoach but itmis not necessarily great.For xp WP are just a better option.
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Re: Is Aztec an undiscovered civ?

Post by fei123456 »

Garja wrote:blablabla

Summary of my idea:
1. If aztec don't send 3wp early, does it mean aztec can't really have 10 wp in this game?
I'm often in this situation: in some MUs I have to/I decided to send unit shipments early. But I didn't kill him or hurt him too much after 10-9-6. Sending 3wp/5v seems to be too slow here, but if I don't send them, I will be outboomed/outmassed (aztec don't have musk, nor steel trap etc).

2. TP is for stagecoach
As it's a stagecoach meta, why I seldom see aztec players do such boom? WP boom is safe, but stagecoach boom pays back much earlier.
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Re: Is Aztec an undiscovered civ?

Post by tedere12 »

see diarouga's games on the invitational. literally all he did was azzy stagecoach
Generally azzy cant do 4 or 5 tp stagecoach because they got weak eco, so you won't see them doing tp boom on hp or arizona
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Re: Is Aztec an undiscovered civ?

Post by Garja »

Couprider wrote:
Garja wrote:blablabla

Summary of my idea:
1. If aztec don't send 3wp early, does it mean aztec can't really have 10 wp in this game?
I'm often in this situation: in some MUs I have to/I decided to send unit shipments early. But I didn't kill him or hurt him too much after 10-9-6. Sending 3wp/5v seems to be too slow here, but if I don't send them, I will be outboomed/outmassed (aztec don't have musk, nor steel trap etc).

2. TP is for stagecoach
As it's a stagecoach meta, why I seldom see aztec players do such boom? WP boom is safe, but stagecoach boom pays back much earlier.


You either send them early for xp or send them late to go straight to 10. You don't really send them in between other cards.
stagecoach strat = 700w 600w. You can also do 3 travois 700w etc. but it's just inferior.
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Re: Is Aztec an undiscovered civ?

Post by bwinner »

Diarouga also do a good semi ff witg azzy that use the war chief bug. BO iz 3s/3wp/700w/5s/depend what opponent do, you can ship 10/9 mace if needed and when you can up, 600g.
During transition, build a house and then all vils on firepit exept 5 on food for prod. When you get your 2nd age 2 xp, dance for wp. You should get 10 like at 5.20.
When you get 700w, build a warhut, a tp and houses (or market, I don't remember). Then just age up safely because you can send tons of shipement to defend yourself. You up with the chief. Then send then age 3 wc up and just play it age 3 with ekr/mace. Being outrange isn't a so big issue because you have a very fast chief that can snare and kill them. Use his special attack to one shot canons.
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Re: Is Aztec an undiscovered civ?

Post by Hazza54321 »

deleted_user wrote:3wp card is perhaps overrated as azzy for standard colonial play.

Its not you just need to send it early
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Re: Is Aztec an undiscovered civ?

Post by alistairpeter »

What is the warchief bug?
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Re: Is Aztec an undiscovered civ?

Post by gibson »

alistairpeter wrote:What is the warchief bug?
if the war chief dies in cover mode (where he takes 50% less range damage but also moves slower) when he wakes up he moves at full speed. So basically if you get to age 4 and ship a card or two he has 4k hp and you can do heal dance and he wakes up in the battle field.
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Re: Is Aztec an undiscovered civ?

Post by alistairpeter »

Hmm so is it generally good to keep him in cover mode if you plan on aging?
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Re: Is Aztec an undiscovered civ?

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Post by Gendarme »

Keep him in cover mode if he plans on dying, rather. If he dies successfully while in cover mode, keep in there for the rest of the game.
Pay more attention to detail.

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