Expert Team Insight

No Flag OrangeRage
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Expert Team Insight

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Post by OrangeRage »

1. Sometimes when I'm playing a 3 vs 3 I will get confused as to what starting unit we should make. The odd civ combo for me would be China/Aztec/Japan because there is no good cav for age 2 compared to the hussar. What common combo with these civs would be best usually?

2.When is it generally better to ship an eco card or to invest in military upgrades from the home city? It seems we're all pretty much heavy eco players since going all in really has to pay off or you'll probably just lose because you'll fall behind in economy.

3. Should you always be training units to a certain number or when is it okay to stop training and focus all in on economy if ever?

Thanks for your answers as to what should be done during some confusing times!
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Kyrgyzstan AOEisLOVE_AOEisLIFE
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Re: Expert Team Insight

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Post by AOEisLOVE_AOEisLIFE »

wow sick colours that gives you an insta like +1.

i leave answering of the questions to the better players, however from a logical point for me it is either all in rush/timing push or eco-boom + raids.

that kinda mix what i see often from MS to 1lt players where they do a bit of everything, like boom a bit, but also spam constant 5 musk from a rax and maybe build a dock and a cpl of fishing boats always looses to an all in rush or clever timing push (regarding a civs strength) or full boom.
No Flag OrangeRage
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Re: Expert Team Insight

Post by OrangeRage »

AOEisLOVE_AOEisLIFE wrote:wow sick colours that gives you an insta like +1.

i leave answering of the questions to the better players, however from a logical point for me it is either all in rush/timing push or eco-boom + raids.

that kinda mix what i see often from MS to 1lt players where they do a bit of everything, like boom a bit, but also spam constant 5 musk from a rax and maybe build a dock and a cpl of fishing boats always looses to an all in rush or clever timing push (regarding a civs strength) or full boom.

I'm starting to find that booming and training what military units you can is the best way of doing thing. Sometimes it's just hard to see how you can afford to do both and to what length. It's easy to get carried away with booming and then find out you've lost the game because there's no way you can deal with your enemy :cry:

I figure the color scheme makes it easier to read and gives it a structure in three separate parts so glad you liked it :flowers:
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Re: Expert Team Insight

Post by wardyb1 »

I'll answer but I'm only 2nd L so maybe take with a grain of salt.
1. I think you aren't looking at it from the correct point of view. Yes the tradition start is musk, bow/skirm, cav, but think about what will beat your opposition's team comp. Are they going to be running the normal set up, are they going to triple musk us, are they running double musk around abus? These are things you have to decide, often by scouting them and understanding their civs. If they are playing 2 french and spain, then maybe double musk and bows will work because their only anti musk units and xbow and often people don't use them at low levels. So for your example though, if they are running a traditional setup, you could run ashi, then both china and aztec both run bow pike. You would have crazy good siege, untouchable by cav, would run over musk, and if they only have 1 guy going for skirm or bow you could overwhelm him if played properly.

2. A similiar answer again, what is your opponent doing or what are you trying to achieve? If you comp benefits hard rush, hard rush. If they are going to push you, pump out some units and try to hold. If you've just won a good fight, either keep your momentum by punishing them and pushing back, or boost your eco and age and contain them, starve them out.

3. Same as 2 really. Maybe you're playing ports and you know staying age 2 isn't good so you just cav semi and age. Once again, what are you trying to achieve? Ask yourself why am I doing what I'm doing? Do I have time to boom? Will they outscale me if we don't push them and win early. All in all you've got to have an understanding of why you and they are doing whatever they are doing. Have you ever asked yourself why the normal start is lb, musk, cav? Seems obvious maybe but is it really? Why don't people run double cav, lb/musk and steam roll over the normal start? Start thinking like this and you'll win more games.

Sorry for essay :)
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Re: Expert Team Insight

Post by macacoalbino »

About last question, I'm no pro but as far as i know all you have to do is scout... If you have no information at all, the safe play is to always train units, but thats not usually good, just remember to scout. If they dont intend to attack you soon, just boom all the way with the least military you can afford to raid/defend raids.
Dont forget that if your civs scale worse than your opponents youll have to timing attack them at some point.
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Re: Expert Team Insight

Post by _tank »

I'm mostly assuming your talking 3v3 and I've played lots of 3x3 random so this is based on my experience there...

1) Having no hussar equivalent means your team is vulnerable to early raids so you should come up with a way to deal with it. Your options depend on how aggressive you want to be, one option is a quick rush with china/aztec shipping units to fb and japan making ashi since they are the only ones who can musk. In terms of units both china and aztec have to mix units early on to be effective so they can start for example old han + coyote/mace and switch as needed. Other option is to fb in your base (or wall in some maps) and boom (all 3 civs have decent/good boom) so your army protects hunts/vills from raids and everyone has at least some pikes or musk. Either way 2 of the civs end up having a mixed unit army in age 2, which is probably why you wouldn't see this team comp very often.

2) As you say eco is often the safe and best option since you can rely on the bigger map + teammates to buy time for the eco to kick in. However if you can coordinate a combined timing to attack the enemy with your allies or defend a desperate rush/recover from too much booming by shipping military then it is worth it. Also worth noting crates are good for army and eco investment early game and army upgrade cards are really strong mid/lategame.

3) Often you want to stop making army to invest heavily in eco. Your plan should be to pick a timing where your civ or your team has a relative advantage and get to that point quickly/safely and abuse it. In some cases that timing is max vills (france fortress and 3 TC), in other cases it is mid age 2/3 (dutch quickly 4 bank) or as soon as you hit age 2 (iro rush). Keep in mind there is no reason to have army if you don't use it, don't just mindlessly pop out the biggest army you can every batch while neglecting eco unless you are actively fighting and it will help you to win / not to lose.
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Re: Expert Team Insight

Post by momuuu »

If the second and third question are 1v1, imo military is by far the most important thing to invest into because losing mapcontrol and thus the ability to hunt and mine usually puts you too far behind.
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Re: Expert Team Insight

Post by Hazza54321 »

first question is a hard one, your best bet is just outmassing ur opponents with ranged inf whilst keeping some anti cav to deal with raids for example some pumas or ashis, azzy can even go coyote once they have the hp and speed card cos it makes them faster than huss. Or you could try to hold whilst china ffs and gets their great heavy cav
second question generally you want to avoid shipping units are all costs, in colonial you mostly wanna ship crates and vills if youre not rushing/holding a rush, however if u do rush dont commit more than 1 or 2 unit shipments within that rush or youre doing too much damage to your eco.
sometimes in a boom war you shouldnt train units at all or just some cav to raid, or some anti cav to defend raids, however 95% of the time you want to train units as map control is even more important in team games than 1v1
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Re: Expert Team Insight

Post by Darwin_ »

For the second question, until you have enough vills to make an eco upgrade worth more vills than you can ship in that age (i.e once something like refrideration is worth more than 8 vills, or spice trade is worth more than 5), I personally ship military upgrades. However, when you are transitioning to mills/plantations shipping something like refrigeration or royal mint seems to be a lot better in that moment than a military upgrade, even if they don't equal 8 or more villagers. I just really like unit upgrades because if you have enough mass, their effect can be the same as a unit shipment, but the upgrade stays for the whole game. Like for dutch in 2v2, especially so on RE, what makes them good is not just their eco, but the fact that their skirms are just insane (essentially guard in fortress age when they are triple carded). Same with brits and russia to an extent.

As far as unit shipments, I would only ship them in fortress if you really need to hold something or if like one of the unit types in your composition got destroyed and you need to make sure you have a safe composition. In colonial, they are very situational, but kinda all-in most of the time. I think an upgrade card or crates are most of the time superior to a unit shipment.
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