Late game army composition - Germany

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Italy Garja
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Re: Late game army composition - Germany

Post by Garja »

Hazza54321 wrote:2hcs are way better than the age 4 uhlan card, a large portion of the time u want to semi fi as german before the gold mines run out

I don't know about that. You are spending 1.2k gold at a critical point to fight starvation. I guess if you can get away with then it is your best chance (age4 cards repay for the age up eventually and admittedly late game as Germans sucks anyway).
Here we were talking about a maxed out late game situation anyway. In team (3v3 especially), for example, I wouldn't ever have 2 HCs.
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Re: Late game army composition - Germany

Post by Hazza54321 »

Garja wrote:
Hazza54321 wrote:2hcs are way better than the age 4 uhlan card, a large portion of the time u want to semi fi as german before the gold mines run out

I don't know about that. You are spending 1.2k gold at a critical point to fight starvation. I guess if you can get away with then it is your best chance (age4 cards repay for the age up eventually and admittedly late game as Germans sucks anyway).
Here we were talking about a maxed out late game situation anyway. In team (3v3 especially), for example, I wouldn't ever have 2 HCs.

youd rather plantation transition before goin indus?
And 2 heavies are nice to hold their timing push if u semi fi
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Re: Late game army composition - Germany

Post by Garja »

Well the decision to go indus depends game by game. In any case I would consider indus for factories rather than 2 HCs. I don't think you're going to win a game with 2 HCs really. Unless both you and the opponent are at 200/200 floating res which is not a scenario that should happen. But even then if you don't win the game straight away you find yourself with no army (just traded) and still the plant switch problem.
Thing is in a 1v1 realistically you are still at 50 vills with just one TC so you have no late game potential whatsoever. So ye you have to win by push which is that kind of situation you really don't want to be for long run win%.
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Re: Late game army composition - Germany

Post by jj0823 »

Is pure Dopp + Uhlan enough? Biggest problem I see is mass HI and artillery. Is mixing skirms a good idea?
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Re: Late game army composition - Germany

Post by Hazza54321 »

dop uhlan sucks lol
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Re: Late game army composition - Germany

Post by Garja »

Dopp ulhan is just unrealistic because of upgrades needed and pop space taken. Plus it is a full melee combo.
Germans simply dont have a good late game combo. That's why I say your best bet is go pure ulhan and then just enough skirms when opponent makes the counter. It is key that you dictate the game damaging eco, because you dont have a cost-efficient combo to trade forever.
Another possibility is ww+heavies+some ulhans which should trade better but those units train slow and take lot of pop.
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Re: Late game army composition - Germany

Post by yurashic »

Don't make many uhlans late in the game.
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Re: Late game army composition - Germany

Post by jj0823 »

Got it, thanks again. I wish Germany had better options, they have one of the best late game economies if you go full 20 SW and 99 vills. Huge contrast to India, or even France.
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Re: Late game army composition - Germany

Post by born2believe »

jj0823 wrote:Got it, thanks again. I wish Germany had better options, they have one of the best late game economies if you go full 20 SW and 99 vills. Huge contrast to India, or even France.


Well... then you only have 61 pop left and you just lose so much cost effectivnes due to your opponent having a way bigger army that its usually not worth it. I know in treaty you delete vills in order to have a bigger army. Supremacy games rarelly get that long anyways (unless its a 4v4 or something).
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Re: Late game army composition - Germany

Post by pecelot »

And you don't really have the Germantown Farmers card in your deck :?
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Re: Late game army composition - Germany

Post by jj0823 »

pecelot wrote:And you don't really have the Germantown Farmers card in your deck :?

You assume I'm a good player and deckbuilder :lol:
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Re: Late game army composition - Germany

Post by pecelot »

There was a discussion about that card recently, with a conclusion being that you have other important age 3 cards and it's kinda awkward pop-wise in late game as with additional SWs you limit your already small population space even more. 100-vill eco is enough with eco theory, refrigeration and royal mint (and possibly one or two eco cards more in team).
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Re: Late game army composition - Germany

Post by Kaiserklein »

jj0823 wrote:As the title suggests
What is the ideal German comp? Without true musks or goons, seems hard to build a good army beyond the fortress timing. It seems like WW aren't really that good past a certain time, but there isn't really anything else besides an Uhlan wall for psuedo-anticav or dopps, which also kind of suck to switch in/out of. Does that just make Skirm/WW/Uhlan the best 3-unit comp?

Depends on what you call late game. In a lot of match ups as germany you just want to ship the 9 blackriders, because they're your only goon-type unit. But it's always a risk to ship them (you idle 1000 gold + you need to wait 1 min for the shipment to come, instead of the regular 40 sec, because it's a mercs shipment), though you can a lot of times get away with it, especially in early fortress when you still have resources in base. Now, I know it sounds weird that I talk about "early fortress" when the title is about "late game". Well, your job is now to try and keep your br alive, they're usually your most valuable units, and they also have high hp so you can try to keep them alive for as long as you can. And then ofc, next to the br, comes the classic skirm + uhlan composition, more or less skirms heavy depending on the match up.

If you go to real late fortress though (like 20 min in game) you will have to go ww though, in a large majority of cases. There is simply just no other way, dopps are slower and drop too fast to a large mass of skirms (especially when they get the arsenal CIR upgrade, which might happen in late game if your opponent sees you go heavy on dopps). WWs also become slightly better as you upgrade them, because they scale on their fortress stats (they're always veteran), so you can consider that every upgrade is 20% better than if it were working on age 2 stats. So once cav combat shipped, and the arsenal upgrade for ranged cav researched, and maybe also some age 2 cards if you really reach late game, WWs are actually not that bad stats-wise. They still remain slow but well, there's no other way.

And in super late game with age 5 (though it basically never happens) you could go dopps I guess, because they siege so much so you can run with them through the walls etc.
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Re: Late game army composition - Germany

Post by KDF »

Yeah, i have really a problem with lategame germany. Of course i play germany to its strenght - ff and raid/kill everything what moves - but in rare cases, my team lets me bleed out against multiple enemys and booms into age 4. Everything gets walled up, my age 3 shipments are coming to an end and i age up aswell, sending Germantown+factories. What i do now, is building 2 mills make them full with working settlerwaggons and spamming regular settlers out of my 3 TCs,rallypoint set on wood. Whenever i have enough wood, building a plantation with 10 vills until i have 60 to 99 on plantations.

And here comes the point where i need help:
-60 or 99 villagers and sending ressources to allys?
-Heavy Cannons or ressouces from factories?
-Solinger steel or lippaziner/spanish riding school(or however its called in english aka. 10% faster cav)?
-Fighting directly against the enemy or try to get down the walls with doppels (being a annoying asshole :hehe:)?


What i mainly face in such kind of teamgames are the classics:
Lategame Brits with musk/LB and artillery,France Gendarme instant spam and japanese Musks :chinese: with Flamings arrows + their Generals :kinggreen: .
Hence the toughest lategame f****rs. Any suggestions how to play/card i should use or can i only resign if it comes to age 4/5?
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Re: Late game army composition - Germany

Post by Hazza54321 »

wow did i really say that?,
late game combo should be fast dops skirm , uhlan if its a messy raiding everywhere game, cannons if the fight is mostly situated in 1 place,
I tend to ship 2sw and 3sw in age 2 so i like to go 90 vills (100 pop), sometimes over if im industrial and want to get to imperial, or feed my mates indus,
facts on coin when mines run out, once you transition with ups on plants put them on wood.
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Re: Late game army composition - Germany

Post by optimusprime »

just follow the Counter System ...
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Re: Late game army composition - Germany

Post by KDF »

Hazza54321 wrote:wow did i really say that?,
late game combo should be fast dops skirm , uhlan if its a messy raiding everywhere game, cannons if the fight is mostly situated in 1 place,
I tend to ship 2sw and 3sw in age 2 so i like to go 90 vills (100 pop), sometimes over if im industrial and want to get to imperial, or feed my mates indus,
facts on coin when mines run out, once you transition with ups on plants put them on wood.


So i use the melee combat and solinger steel instead of the cav combat cards in my deck? The problem is always i feel the game is over for germany if it comes to late age4 or age 5.
For me its like german cant really compete with Brit,France,Japan at this stage. Because of these shit units Germany have, this late in the game.
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Re: Late game army composition - Germany

Post by Hazza54321 »

KDF wrote:
Hazza54321 wrote:wow did i really say that?,
late game combo should be fast dops skirm , uhlan if its a messy raiding everywhere game, cannons if the fight is mostly situated in 1 place,
I tend to ship 2sw and 3sw in age 2 so i like to go 90 vills (100 pop), sometimes over if im industrial and want to get to imperial, or feed my mates indus,
facts on coin when mines run out, once you transition with ups on plants put them on wood.


So i use the melee combat and solinger steel instead of the cav combat cards in my deck? The problem is always i feel the game is over for germany if it comes to late age4 or age 5.
For me its like german cant really compete with Brit,France,Japan at this stage. Because of these shit units Germany have, this late in the game.

neither, the steel card makes them too slow dont really have space in deck for meelee combat
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Re: Late game army composition - Germany

Post by dicktator_ »

When you say fast dop do you mean church carded dops or just AA?
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Re: Late game army composition - Germany

Post by KDF »

Hazza54321 wrote:
KDF wrote:
Hazza54321 wrote:wow did i really say that?,
late game combo should be fast dops skirm , uhlan if its a messy raiding everywhere game, cannons if the fight is mostly situated in 1 place,
I tend to ship 2sw and 3sw in age 2 so i like to go 90 vills (100 pop), sometimes over if im industrial and want to get to imperial, or feed my mates indus,
facts on coin when mines run out, once you transition with ups on plants put them on wood.


So i use the melee combat and solinger steel instead of the cav combat cards in my deck? The problem is always i feel the game is over for germany if it comes to late age4 or age 5.
For me its like german cant really compete with Brit,France,Japan at this stage. Because of these shit units Germany have, this late in the game.

neither, the steel card makes them too slow dont really have space in deck for meelee combat


So you play without upgrades? You have probably cav upgrades, but how does that help in the lategame? Ulans and WW are shit later on. Melee doesnt help in midgame (probably not even later). However, is here any possibilty to share decks? Because i made some decks specially for teamgames where the possibility exists that the game last longer as it needed for german player.
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Re: Late game army composition - Germany

Post by Garja »

Ulhans and WW are not bad late game.
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Re: Late game army composition - Germany

Post by Kazamkikaz »

KDF wrote:Yeah, i have really a problem with lategame germany. sending Germantown+factories. What i do now, is building 2 mills make them full with working settlerwaggons and spamming regular settlers out of my 3 TCs,rallypoint set on wood. Whenever i have enough wood, until i have 60 to 99 on plantations.

And here comes the point where i need help:
-60 or 99 villagers and sending ressources to allys?
-Heavy Cannons or ressouces from factories?
-Solinger steel or lippaziner/spanish riding school(or however its called in english aka. 10% faster cav)?
-Fighting directly against the enemy or try to get down the walls with doppels (being a annoying asshole :hehe:)?


What i mainly face in such kind of teamgames are the classics:
Lategame Brits with musk/LB and artillery,France Gendarme instant spam and japanese Musks :chinese: with Flamings arrows + their Generals :kinggreen: .
Hence the toughest lategame f****rs. Any suggestions how to play/card i should use or can i only resign if it comes to age 4/5?

ww with about 1000hp in age4 and about 60 range damage, uhlan with +-300 hp and 70(include cav cards) :?: melee damage how bad is it ? unless u hv bad eco or vill distribution like u said give teammates resources with 99 vill on plantation, heavy cannon with factory is not good because u can use 2 heavy cannons card unless u use doppel and shirm, u need speed so heavy cannon slow u down , teammates like Portugal, Dutch or british can make cannons, unique german army cost alot( dopp, uhlan and ww) need good eco to mass them.
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Re: Late game army composition - Germany

Post by Kaiserklein »

In 1v1, you anyway have no space in your deck for upgrades. You usually have only cav combat, hp and attack, or even sometimes no cav attack (because no +2 uhlans). So you really want to make uhlans and ww, since they will be upgraded by these cards. Plus, wws scale off fortress stats, so they're even stronger. And uhlans have the royal guard upgrade.
Dops have no upgrades in a normal deck, no royal guard, and they scale off colo stats. So just don't make them in late game, usually.
Skirms have royal guard, but nothing else. But you should still make them just because you can't replace them with another unit I guess you could make cannons instead, but they're really not mobile and train slowly, and have also no upgrades. And they're just annoying to micro, especially if it turns into a culv war.
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Re: Late game army composition - Germany

Post by Hazza54321 »

dicktator_ wrote:When you say fast dop do you mean church carded dops or just AA?

Both, i think theyre faster than ww if not similar speed so can deal with raids better, plus makes your opponent micro alot more whilst you can focus on a push elsewhere (he has to kite with skirms and goons or he loses all his shit, couple it with sone uhlan snaring and youre good to go)
It might just be my playstyle though
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Re: Late game army composition - Germany

Post by Kaiserklein »

They get 5.85 speed, which is pretty good. Everytime I get infantry mercs I go for church + aa at some point anyway, it's pretty strong. But how do you actually have church card + aa in a decent 1v1 deck?
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