Late game army composition - India

[jj0823]

Again, as the title suggests
I was happy with how insightful the last thread was, so I wanted to make a new one, but for a different civ.
Unlike Germany, India has almost every normal unit combo available. However, there is one thing missing from the Indian arsenal, and that is true artillery. What do you think a good late game army composition is? Note: Disclude Urumi as a "late game unit" because you can't reliably create them other than the infinite 8 urumi shipment.
I have been playing around, and I like either Gurkha + Sepoy + Sowar, or Gurkha + Zamburak + Sowar
I thought elephants would be better, but it turns out they are similar to war wagons in both their utility and shortcomings.

[kami_ryu]

Well the infinite shipment is pretty reliable.

I don't think India is penalized by lack of artillery but I could be wrong

[JakeyBoyTH]

Well the infinite shipment is pretty reliable.

I don't think India is penalized by lack of artillery but I could be wrong

Their artillery are pretty ok, but with seige elephants being classed as ranged cavalry it lets them down a wee bit, however their elephants are lovely in that every one of them has a massive amount of seige: Howdahs for example, if I remember have 93 when FU. Thats pretty nice, but I do suppose they do have like 5 population and train a bit slow.

To answer OP I dont play india much but usually Sepoy + Urumi (if you can) + Ghurka with a few Mahouts pretty much do very well. Maybe a few Howdahs. I think the person to talk to here would be HowlingWolfPaw.

[howlingwolfpaw]

the infinite 9 urumi is arguably indias best card. they soooo good. they make mahouts soo much better too. don't count them out. india has no art artillery because it has powerful melee units that can kill just as fast as art can.

army combos react to what civ your opponent is and how they are playing that civ.

but as a general start I have mansabar gurka and sepoy. about 14 gurka, 3 mahout, 3 siege ele, rest sepoy about 39, 20 tigers and either brit or france consulate armies. then follow up with a urumi shipment once im down in pop. that will do well vs most civs.

late game elephants are better. save some cards dont use camels.

[jj0823]

I guess I was misconstrued, I was trying to build a more "European" style comp, but it seems like there are even better options beyond that. Thanks for cluing me in.

[Hazza54321]

Sepoy + z move

[Gendarme]

Z + sepoy move

[tedere12]

I think it has to be mainly gurka since they are really good skirmisher units and howdahs(just enough to kill the anti cav). I don't like sepoy on lategame because they get picked off too easily by skirmishers and its not possible to fight with sepoy gurka a skirm cav composition. Mahouts cost a lot of wood so I don't think its ideal to make many of them, but its possible to train some to trade them for some skirms. Howdahs are decent, they are not pop efficient but they train fast and have a lot of upgrades, having just enough to protect yourself from enemy cav is a must. So I guess I would probably go with ghurka howdah mahout

[momuuu]

Both mahout and howdah benefit from scaling on fortress age stats instead of colonial stats. So while a guard upgrade for sepoy applies to their colonial stats, the guard upgrade for howdah and mahout does slightly more. Its then 30%*1.2 basically, and the imperial upgrade does the same. So imperial mahout benefit from a secret ~15% upgrade basically, which means lategame those units might be a bit better. On the other hand elephants cost too much pop without the card that reduces their pop so they might not be viable in such a lategame scenario. Otherwise though I'd say mahout sepoy gurka and some urumi might be great.

[gibson]

I dont think elephants are good late game cause theyre not pop efficient and take too long to train

[Hazza54321]

sepoy gurkha howdah mahout probably

[WickedCossack]

I usually like to run with 99 urumi + 1 mansadbar ururmi for the perfect composition.

[Hazza54321]

I usually like to run with 99 urumi + 1 mansadbar ururmi for the perfect composition.

but u cant sepoy z move like u do the rest of the game :(

[forgrin]

If you have the elephant cards in your deck, then elephants + Gurkha + as many urumi as you can get. Otherwise, urumi + gurk/sepoy/zamb is good too. Camels don't scale as well as elephants when comparing with all relevant cards sent, but they are better if you don't have the elephant cards in (which is the case in almost all supremacy games). Howdah have some niche use in fortress before anyone hits max pop, but afterwards they're beaten pop-effectively by other goons.

The real purpose of urumi is to kinda substitute for anti-inf artillery like falcs, so use them accordingly. They are kinda neutered by cav if your opponent can muster enough to bodyblock effectively.

If you get to a position where you have Indus urumi and natural resources run out before they can mass enough cav to stop you, urumi will kinda run over everything just because they cost primarily XP. This is what we saw in the Boneng V lordraphael(?) Game. This isn't really applicable with fortress urumi or in a situation where your opponent is still gathering though

[Darwin_]

Sepoy/Guhrka/Urumi/elephants. I wouldn't bother with camels as they trade HP for speed, and HP is much more important in the late game.

[howlingwolfpaw]

sepoy is a good backbone unit for india. too many gurka and india is too vulnerable to cav spam. so even if someone is making lots of skirms you still need to have some sepoy. just a small amount 10-15% gurka is all u need.

Mahouts while pop inefficient are only "bad" because of pathing issues. you will still need to train them. you cant rely on tigers alone to kill skirm spams.


the key to fighting with india is to attack in waves. euro civs spam to fill a battle line and the battle goes on and on. but india you attack, lose strength, train slow, then retreat a little then attack again to take some ground and go on so forth. not trying to continually push through as you run risk of having too many units in training.

[Hazza54321]

sepoy is a good backbone unit for india. too many gurka and india is too vulnerable to cav spam. so even if someone is making lots of skirms you still need to have some sepoy. just a small amount 10-15% gurka is all u need.

Mahouts while pop inefficient are only "bad" because of pathing issues. you will still need to train them. you cant rely on tigers alone to kill skirm spams.


the key to fighting with india is to attack in waves. euro civs spam to fill a battle line and the battle goes on and on. but india you attack, lose strength, train slow, then retreat a little then attack again to take some ground and go on so forth. not trying to continually push through as you run risk of having too many units in training.

No one has tigers in late game sup though

[Garja]

Gurka/sepoy or just full sepoy. Zambs are not bad since they are literally a 1 pop unit (cost the same and have comparable stats) with couple ups available. Carded howdahs are quite practical too. Sowars are far from bad but they act mostly as a counter unit and India has more useful units to go for.

[howlingwolfpaw]

sepoy is a good backbone unit for india. too many gurka and india is too vulnerable to cav spam. so even if someone is making lots of skirms you still need to have some sepoy. just a small amount 10-15% gurka is all u need.

Mahouts while pop inefficient are only "bad" because of pathing issues. you will still need to train them. you cant rely on tigers alone to kill skirm spams.


the key to fighting with india is to attack in waves. euro civs spam to fill a battle line and the battle goes on and on. but india you attack, lose strength, train slow, then retreat a little then attack again to take some ground and go on so forth. not trying to continually push through as you run risk of having too many units in training.

No one has tigers in late game sup though

thats too bad, tigers OP. if you have the food for them. make them. difference between india being usable and being awesome.

[jj0823]

When you say tigers, do you mean Tiger Claws? Or do you mean the trainable tigers from the monastery tech/explorer card? IIRC you can't train Tiger Claws normally, they are another unique merc shipment like Urumi unless you have their native outpost.

[noissance]

trainable tigers, because they are cheap 'cavalry'

[pecelot]

They mean Tiger Claws from shipments.

[jj0823]

They mean Tiger Claws from shipments.

trainable tigers, because they are cheap 'cavalry'

Who do I believe!?

[forgrin]

They mean Tiger Claws from shipments.

trainable tigers, because they are cheap 'cavalry'

Who do I believe!?

Lol it's fair to be confused. Howling means pet tigers because you can spam train them from your monks. They act as pseudo-cav in the same way Chinese disciples do.

[pecelot]

Oh, right, sorry, I must have missed that part, I wrongly assumed we were talking about „regular" tigers, a.k.a. Tiger Claws