How to beat the China FF deathball?

[Warno]

Hey all.
Been preparing with different matchups going into the tourney and this one kills me Everytime.
Just can't mass the same amount of units and eventually get overwhelmed.

Is it best to harass and try to time for 8 mins or so when he's aging into fortress?

Thanks!

[deleted_user]

It's very difficult to compete against China when you let him FF undisturbed. There are a few options: you can rush, you can semi ff your own (semi harrasses him), or you can timing push him (usually with a lot of cav) shortly before he hits up, the idea of this being to kill his shipments one by one instead of letting the ball grow bigger.

[fei123456]

Depends on the map and your civ
If you can do a 3-4 TP stagecoach boom, do it. With this eco advantage you can play age 3 with him.
If not, do a musk hussar timing at around 7:30. You'll have to kill his 8 arquebusier, then 9 redcoat, and if you still have some units left, you win.

[deleted_user]

Most people don't ff with china with the 8 arqs anymore. It's a bit outdated. You can do 3-4 TP stagecoach but that will slow you down and china can easily retake the line in their early fortress while also having the +8 vills the Porcelain Tower represents.

Tbh if you are going to musk/huss them there's no reason to play any civ that's not Brits, and Brits win that MU.

[tedere12]

brit age 2 rek china ez pz no reason not to play brits

[yurashic]

Nobody plays China so you can forget about it.

[yoqpasa]

China is so easy to counter, sadly.

[Gendarme]

Before I say anything else: I'm an übernoob, so take everything I say with a grain of salt, a slice of lime, and a shot of tequila.

As France against China, I go for two batches of hussars semi-FF. If you force him to send pikemen in colonial age, it's great, and unless his base is cramped together, which it usually isn't because China likes to spread out with their villages securing resources, he will probably be forced to send that shipment. Even if he sends the pikemen shipment, you can continue raiding and hopefully idling him some more; pikemen are not dragoons - they are no threat to your hussars unless you misplay and get caught.

China usually goes heavy on cavalry, so in fortress my composition is heavy on cuirassiers and dragoons (and the hussars that have survived from earlier raiding). Together with the two falconets and a handful of skirmishers, you should be able to hold his timing push (I don't play China, but every game I have played, China has always come to my base - all I needed to do was to wait).

[Gendarme]

1) Iroquois semi ff (4kanyas/5v/600g), watch my stream or answer this post if you want more details.

Iroquois <3

Moar details pls

[momuuu]

British can be really good against china.

[Rikikipu]

For having played china a lot of time, I think a game with China FF is a game that really shows player skills

[Diarouga64]

1) Iroquois semi ff (4kanyas/5v/600g), watch my stream or answer this post if you want more details.

Iroquois <3

Moar details pls

Age 1: If you have a 100w start, gather 100 more and build a TP, else just gather food and age with 12+3vills with the wise woman.
Build a house with your travois.

While aging: Put 12v on wood in order to build the market and research hunting dogs and build à TP.
Then gather 125w (Another house), and switch your vills back to food, let 4-5 on wood.

Age 2: Send 4 Kanyas, build the wh in the middle of the map, train 2vills and then clic on the big button from the tc (5tomas for 500f) and train 5tomas from the rax.

Now you have two options:
-If you feel you can kill him, send 6 tomas and make 10 more, then do the 2nd "-"
-Idle him with your 10 Tomas and your kanyas.
You want to slow him, kill his explorer, and against some players, force a military shipment, don't overcommit though.
Send 5v/600g and age in the mean time (fast politician ofc), and outmass him hard with skirms and goons.


PS: Please quote my post, else it's going to be deleted, and it could help some other people

[yurashic]

1) Iroquois semi ff (4kanyas/5v/600g), watch my stream or answer this post if you want more details.

Iroquois <3

Moar details pls

Age 1: If you have a 100w start, gather 100 more and build a TP, else just gather food and age with 12+3vills with the wise woman.
Build a house with your travois.

While aging: Put 12v on wood in order to build the market and research hunting dogs and build à TP.
Then gather 125w (Another house), and switch your vills back to food, let 4-5 on wood.

Age 2: Send 4 Kanyas, build the wh in the middle of the map, train 2vills and then clic on the big button from the tc (5tomas for 500f) and train 5tomas from the rax.

Now you have two options:
-If you feel you can kill him, send 6 tomas and make 10 more, then do the 2nd "-"
-Idle him with your 10 Tomas and your kanyas.
You want to slow him, kill his explorer, and against some players, force a military shipment, don't overcommit though.
Send 5v/600g and age in the mean time (fast politician ofc), and outmass him hard with skirms and goons.


PS: Please quote my post, else it's going to be deleted, and it could help some other people

Good guide, agree.

[deleted_user0]

china shouldnt lose to that...

[born2believe]

1) Iroquois semi ff (4kanyas/5v/600g), watch my stream or answer this post if you want more details.

Iroquois <3

Moar details pls

Age 1: If you have a 100w start, gather 100 more and build a TP, else just gather food and age with 12+3vills with the wise woman.
Build a house with your travois.

While aging: Put 12v on wood in order to build the market and research hunting dogs and build à TP.
Then gather 125w (Another house), and switch your vills back to food, let 4-5 on wood.

Age 2: Send 4 Kanyas, build the wh in the middle of the map, train 2vills and then clic on the big button from the tc (5tomas for 500f) and train 5tomas from the rax.

Now you have two options:
-If you feel you can kill him, send 6 tomas and make 10 more, then do the 2nd "-"
-Idle him with your 10 Tomas and your kanyas.
You want to slow him, kill his explorer, and against some players, force a military shipment, don't overcommit though.
Send 5v/600g and age in the mean time (fast politician ofc), and outmass him hard with skirms and goons.


PS: Please quote my post, else it's going to be deleted, and it could help some other people

I dont really understant why your posts are getting deleted. Pretty much all of them are very helpful. Insights from one of the best players.

[Diarouga65]

@deleted_user They do. If you want we can play a bo5, I'm pretty sure it'd be 3-0

@born2believe Well, I'm permanently banned that's why.

[deleted_user0]

and im pretty sure you would lose 3-0. next.

[born2believe]

@born2believe Well, I'm permanently banned that's why.

I understand that they're banning your accounts, but deleting the posts imo does more harm then good.

[Garja]

Stagecoach semi and 3 unit combo starting with skirm+goons, then kanya. You get more eco and more mobile units.

[Gendarme]

Stagecoach semi

4 kanya > 600w > 5v > Fortress?

[Warno]

Thanks diarouga. I've been watching your streams. Your commentary is very helpful. I've been looking for help with iro on so so that will help. Thanks a lot!

[deleted_user0]

Stagecoach semi and 3 unit combo starting with skirm+goons, then kanya. You get more eco and more mobile units.

china can punish such builds so hard, and you hardly outeco china even then.

[pecelot]

Diarouga's posts are not being deleted as they are not against the rules and are in fact quite helpful. Unfortunately, it's a wasted effort as his accounts get banned, for obvious reasons. Let's not discuss it here

[Warno]

Stagecoach semi and 3 unit combo starting with skirm+goons, then kanya. You get more eco and more mobile units.

Ty garja. I've been going through your streams as well watching iro

[pecelot]

Maybe was too nice...
Let's not discuss these matters here