300W for TP versus saving shipment

France iNcog
Ninja
Posts: 13236
Joined: Mar 7, 2015

300W for TP versus saving shipment

Post by iNcog »

I'm thinking of Russia and Portuguese here.

Yes, I realize that Russia has the wood trickle.

I'm curious as to hear people's thoughts about which is better.
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/incog_aoe
Garja wrote: ↑
20 Mar 2020, 21:46
I just hope DE is not going to implement all of the EP changes. Right now it is a big clusterfuck.
User avatar
Germany yemshi
Jaeger
Posts: 2311
Joined: Jun 3, 2015
ESO: yemshi
Location: Germany

300W for TP versus saving shipment

Post by yemshi »

As porto (land) I send 100% 300wood. TP's are just so good.
Even against rush it works. No iro/otto included, but it should do fine. I lose this MU anyway, so I don't really know :(
The point with russia was already discussed somewhere here.
User avatar
Germany yemshi
Jaeger
Posts: 2311
Joined: Jun 3, 2015
ESO: yemshi
Location: Germany

300W for TP versus saving shipment

Post by yemshi »

User avatar
France [Armag] diarouga
Ninja
NWC LAN Gold
Posts: 12710
Joined: Feb 26, 2015
ESO: diarouga
Location: France

300W for TP versus saving shipment

Post by [Armag] diarouga »

With porto it is worth, as russia I don't know...
No Flag deleted_user0
Ninja
Posts: 13004
Joined: Apr 28, 2020

300W for TP versus saving shipment

Post by deleted_user0 »

I would never send it as russia
User avatar
Brazil macacoalbino
Howdah
Posts: 1305
Joined: Apr 2, 2015
ESO: MacacoAlbino
Clan: 3Huss

300W for TP versus saving shipment

Post by macacoalbino »

Goodspeed says in his guide to send it as Russia, but he didn't explain the math there, so idk...
Image

Image
User avatar
France [Armag] diarouga
Ninja
NWC LAN Gold
Posts: 12710
Joined: Feb 26, 2015
ESO: diarouga
Location: France

300W for TP versus saving shipment

Post by [Armag] diarouga »

macacoalbino wrote:Goodspeed says in his guide to send it as Russia, but he didn''t explain the math there, so idk...
He builds one or two TPs with this wood, so it is better for a timing, but trickle is better at 8-9+ mins.
No Flag deleted_user0
Ninja
Posts: 13004
Joined: Apr 28, 2020

300W for TP versus saving shipment

Post by deleted_user0 »

diarouga wrote:
macacoalbino wrote:Goodspeed says in his guide to send it as Russia, but he didnt explain the math there, so idk...
He builds one or two TPs with this wood, so it is better for a timing, but trickle is better at 8-9+ mins.
Just skip shipment for timed push. Take TP with 400w, do houses/rest of shit with 700w.
User avatar
No Flag Jaeger
Jaeger
Posts: 4492
Joined: Feb 28, 2015

300W for TP versus saving shipment

Post by Jaeger »

With russia you can just get a TP form 400w, the trickle will gather 300w by 6:30.
For port I never send it, you can just gather for a TP and use that shipment to have mamelukes 1 shipment earlier.
last time i cryed was because i stood on Lego
No Flag deleted_user0
Ninja
Posts: 13004
Joined: Apr 28, 2020

300W for TP versus saving shipment

Post by deleted_user0 »

diarouga wrote:With porto it is worth, as russia I don''t know...



Actually not. It totally d?pends on the route. If 300w means u can get 2 defendaple tps then its worth it. So basically only with 200w start. Otherwise saving a shipment will have more effect, because if u have only 1 tp which might be vulnerable on top, its not gonna pay off fast enough. If you save a shipment it means you can send a 700 res card or 600 one instead which means you are ahead over the player who sent 300w. Ports should semi anyway and they can easily get 200w in trans for that single tp andhave about the same amount of xp income but with like 75% shipment more

Unless you gain control oc the route with 300w its just sending a shipment to gain a shipment later, and thus its not worth it.
User avatar
Netherlands Goodspeed
Retired Contributor
Posts: 13002
Joined: Feb 27, 2015

300W for TP versus saving shipment

Post by Goodspeed »

It's sending a shipment to gain multiple shipments later... plus 100w
Anyway I think the earlier thread contains most of the arguments.
Netherlands momuuu
Ninja
Posts: 14237
Joined: Jun 7, 2015
ESO: Jerom_

300W for TP versus saving shipment

Post by momuuu »

calmyourtits wrote:It''s sending a shipment to gain multiple shipments later... plus 100w
Anyway I think the earlier thread contains most of the arguments.
In a way it also means you get less shipments later because the shipments get more expensive though. It''s something that maybe should be taken into the equation.
No Flag deleted_user0
Ninja
Posts: 13004
Joined: Apr 28, 2020

300W for TP versus saving shipment

Post by deleted_user0 »

calmyourtits wrote:It''s sending a shipment to gain multiple shipments later... plus 100w
Anyway I think the earlier thread contains most of the arguments.



Yes, but youre not actually gaining multiple if a) you only stay at 1 tp which means that the gain of a card early is offset by the loss of a card, which puts the actual gain of a card around 9 minutes, and thats only if the other player doesnt get a tp of his own but mirrors what you do otherwise.
B) if you can''t protect your tps and lose it early
C) your opponent gathers for the tp and gets it 1 min later. In early colo he will actually be a shipment ahead, and the shipment value of those hes sending, are double yours.
User avatar
United States of America _H2O
ESOC Business Team
Donator 06
Posts: 3409
Joined: Aug 20, 2016
ESO: _H2O

300W for TP versus saving shipment

Post by _H2O »

i always saved shipment with port. They age pretty fast to age 2 anyway, i could be wrong about it though as i usually like to fish with port if i play them
User avatar
Netherlands Goodspeed
Retired Contributor
Posts: 13002
Joined: Feb 27, 2015

300W for TP versus saving shipment

Post by Goodspeed »

umeu wrote:
calmyourtits wrote:Its sending a shipment to gain multiple shipments later... plus 100w
Anyway I think the earlier thread contains most of the arguments.
Yes, but youre not actually gaining multiple if a) you only stay at 1 tp which means that the gain of a card early is offset by the loss of a card, which puts the actual gain of a card around 9 minutes, and thats only if the other player doesnt get a tp of his own but mirrors what you do otherwise.
B) if you cant protect your tps and lose it early
C) your opponent gathers for the tp and gets it 1 min later. In early colo he will actually be a shipment ahead, and the shipment value of those hes sending, are double yours.
The only way youre not gaining multiple shipments is if the TP is killed and yes you gain an entire shipment by 9 min but before that youre already getting shipments faster than you would if you sent trickle. And this gain is not relative to your opponent, its relative to what you would otherwise have if you didnt build the TP? How is the opposing player relevant in any of this? Also +100w, why is everyone ignoring that?
No Flag deleted_user0
Ninja
Posts: 13004
Joined: Apr 28, 2020

300W for TP versus saving shipment

Post by deleted_user0 »

Well im talking about mirror ports, if i didnt make it clear, so the other guy is symbolizing what happens if u didnt build it with 300w. Yea its 100w and at 5 min u have as many shipments as when u saved a shipment and didnt make a tp + 100w, so basically u sent 100w. If u save a shipment though and do make a tp u gonna ne ahead because instead of a 100 res shipment ur snding a 700 one
User avatar
Netherlands Goodspeed
Retired Contributor
Posts: 13002
Joined: Feb 27, 2015

300W for TP versus saving shipment

Post by Goodspeed »

The transition TP is an investment you can choose to make either way. It's a lot easier to do if you sent 300w too, because you're already at 100w towards your second TP.
The only way your argument is valid is if you would lose the second TP in early colonial because it's exposed, in which case I would often prefer to not chop 200w for a TP and spend resources to defend map control instead. Saving the shipment and chopping 200w sounds ok in theory but realistically it's rarely superior to 300w for 2 TPs or 300w for 1 TP and more units early colonial.
France iNcog
Ninja
Posts: 13236
Joined: Mar 7, 2015

300W for TP versus saving shipment

Post by iNcog »

The +100W is like a free house or a free market which you don't have to chop either. In terms of VS it's quite good indeed.
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/incog_aoe
Garja wrote: ↑
20 Mar 2020, 21:46
I just hope DE is not going to implement all of the EP changes. Right now it is a big clusterfuck.
User avatar
Brazil macacoalbino
Howdah
Posts: 1305
Joined: Apr 2, 2015
ESO: MacacoAlbino
Clan: 3Huss

300W for TP versus saving shipment

Post by macacoalbino »

umeu wrote: Yea its 100w and at 5 min u have as many shipments as when u saved a shipment and didnt make a tp + 100w



Wait, you mean same ammount of colonial shipments at 5? Or total shipments? I''m just trying to figure this out. because it appear as if there are some situations where sending the card would be worth it (no pressure in colonial) and some that it''s not (when you risk losing tp early due to pressure)
Image

Image
No Flag deleted_user0
Ninja
Posts: 13004
Joined: Apr 28, 2020

300W for TP versus saving shipment

Post by deleted_user0 »

Your total shipment count is 1 more. Your actual shipments available will be the same because you spent your extra shipment.
User avatar
Brazil macacoalbino
Howdah
Posts: 1305
Joined: Apr 2, 2015
ESO: MacacoAlbino
Clan: 3Huss

300W for TP versus saving shipment

Post by macacoalbino »

Then I think it's a good thing for a timing against semi-FF as Russia, right? At that point you have same shipments+100w roughly and next ones, even though they need more XP to come, will arrive faster because you have an extra tp
Image

Image
User avatar
Canada forgrin
Howdah
Posts: 1873
Joined: Apr 27, 2015
ESO: Forgrin

300W for TP versus saving shipment

Post by forgrin »

I dunno about Russia, but when I play Ports (which is alot), I send 300w if I eco semi or and save the shipment if I'm playing FF. Obviously I send schooners instead if it's a water map with good fish.
https://www.twitch.tv/forgin14

"WTF WHERE ARE MY 10 FALCS" - AraGun_OP
User avatar
Germany yemshi
Jaeger
Posts: 2311
Joined: Jun 3, 2015
ESO: yemshi
Location: Germany

300W for TP versus saving shipment

Post by yemshi »

What's with ATP?
I do send it acctually quite often as porto
With Russia idk
No Flag mongobillione
Dragoon
Donator 02
Posts: 467
Joined: Mar 4, 2015

300W for TP versus saving shipment

Post by mongobillione »

turtle russia 17 vills age up send 300 wood get tp extra ship get trickle
No Flag deleted_user0
Ninja
Posts: 13004
Joined: Apr 28, 2020

300W for TP versus saving shipment

Post by deleted_user0 »

Sounds terrible

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 11 guests

Which top 10 players do you wish to see listed?

All-time

Active last two weeks

Active last month

Supremacy

Treaty

Official

ESOC Patch

Treaty Patch

1v1 Elo

2v2 Elo

3v3 Elo

Power Rating

Which streams do you wish to see listed?

Twitch

Age of Empires III

Age of Empires IV