Zams or Howdah as I reach Fortress age?

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Canada Lunatic_Fringe
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Zams or Howdah as I reach Fortress age?

Post by Lunatic_Fringe »

Hey folks, I wanted to know which of the above units are better to make when I hit the Fortress age?

Of course, it will depend on my eco and the time I hit age III, but I am assuming here that I have a pretty decent eco, capable of pumping out 2-4 Howdahs (excluding the 2 Howdah shipment). On the other hand, if I am not making Howdahs, I would probably go for Zams/Gurkha, but this requires Discipline upgrades.

The reason I am asking this is because Howdahs might cost a lot of resources and pop, but Zams require both the Camel Attack card + Discipline upgrade to be decent. Often times, Camel Attack is not sent if I don't have a very long age II.
So what is the right balance according to you?
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Re: Zams or Howdah as I reach Fortress age?

Post by jj0823 »

You're kind of answering yourself. If you can support an elephant economy stably then it's probably best to go with that. If you're already investing into camels and have some nice cards in, then camels are better. Of course this is going to be situational in this game, nothing can ever be the best in every situation.
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Re: Zams or Howdah as I reach Fortress age?

Post by Lunatic_Fringe »

jj0823 wrote:You're kind of answering yourself. If you can support an elephant economy stably then it's probably best to go with that. If you're already investing into camels and have some nice cards in, then camels are better. Of course this is going to be situational in this game, nothing can ever be the best in every situation.


I'm asking if it's worth to fully upgrade the Zams if I haven't and use them, instead of Howdahs which do not need to be upgraded right away but cost a handful of resources and pop.
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Re: Zams or Howdah as I reach Fortress age?

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Post by gibson »

If you've sent age 2 camel cards go zams, if not go Sepoy and maybe a few zams to catch raids
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Re: Zams or Howdah as I reach Fortress age?

Post by howlingwolfpaw »

I think one must not also consider resources in hand, but also what civ and how they are using that civ. If for instance you are under pressure from Oprinik raids etc... then zamburaks speed will be beneficial. However if you need to fight a Sioux cavalry deathball, then howdahs are far superior.
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Re: Zams or Howdah as I reach Fortress age?

Post by Ashvin »

Elephants are only good if you have good micro to kill units efficiently and save your low hp elephants too. If you cant do that, there is no point in investing heavily on it, maybe for time being try the 2 howdah shipment and see if you can save them for longer. If you do it with ease then try training 'em.
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Re: Zams or Howdah as I reach Fortress age?

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Post by forgrin »

Important to remember that once you approach 200 pop you'll have to switch to zambs again unless you have the elephant pop card, elephants are crazy pop inefficient. In almost all situations it's not really worth to do more than say ship 2 howdah and make 3ish if you're facing alot of cav.

The howdah strat looks OP but without H2O level micro and macro it kinda gets alot worse.
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Re: Zams or Howdah as I reach Fortress age?

Post by Zhanson10 »

Howdahs are like War Wagons. Unless u have a shit ton of skirms and goons u will lose to them
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Re: Zams or Howdah as I reach Fortress age?

Post by momuuu »

Howdahs have auto vet, thats kinda relevant sometimes.
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Re: Zams or Howdah as I reach Fortress age?

Post by amiggo1999 »

I personally prefer adding sepoy, as they not only do really well vs cav., but also add quite a lot of damage output to your army, while performing good at body blocking. Importnat to consider is that a mostly sepoy/gurkha composition (the one i usually opt for) doesn't require you to having to build a stable. You can rely on shipments for a great portion of most games for meelee (snaring) cavalry. From what i have experienced so far, Zams/Howdah are only really needed if you are under heavy raiding pressure.

But nub me am aniwaes, so wut know i do?
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Re: Zams or Howdah as I reach Fortress age?

Post by lemmings121 »

alternative anwer: 99% of the time you shoulndt age with india. and age2 only has zambs.
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Re: Zams or Howdah as I reach Fortress age?

Post by amiggo1999 »

When you opt for sepoy/gurkha composition you also benefit from pop-efficient units und have decent siege. Whereas zams and howdah don't perform that well at raizing buildings, and both don't benefit from the 'british east india company' card, which I find to be a very good upgrade as india.
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Re: Zams or Howdah as I reach Fortress age?

Post by Lukas_L99 »

Don't sepoy get picked off easily in age 3 by skirms? Don't they perform poorly vs skirm/goon/cav compositions?
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Re: Zams or Howdah as I reach Fortress age?

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Post by Hazza54321 »

Lukas_L99 wrote:Don't sepoy get picked off easily in age 3 by skirms? Don't they perform poorly vs skirm/goon/cav compositions?

theyre sepoys, similar with jans in age 3 u cant kite them forever so they can just keep walking towards ur hunts, also sepoy do better vs goon and skirms than zambs do when in range so thats a factor, just need lag and u become pr40 :D
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Re: Zams or Howdah as I reach Fortress age?

Post by Lunatic_Fringe »

Hazza54321 wrote:
Lukas_L99 wrote:Don't sepoy get picked off easily in age 3 by skirms? Don't they perform poorly vs skirm/goon/cav compositions?

theyre sepoys, similar with jans in age 3 u cant kite them forever so they can just keep walking towards ur hunts, also sepoy do better vs goon and skirms than zambs do when in range so thats a factor, just need lag and u become pr40 :D


Yeah Sepoys are not that good in age 3 since they get kited easily. Also the do not have any major upgrade card, apart from the 10% HP and Attk up.

I think that Zams/Gurkha and a couple Howdahs might do well vs Skirm/Goons/Falcs composition. What do you think about it?
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Re: Zams or Howdah as I reach Fortress age?

Post by amiggo1999 »

lol you must be joking, watch any of my streams, and you will see just how incredibly upgradable sepoy are!

They have good std. stats + disciplined upgrade + brit consultae + mansadbar + british east india card = insane unit, and executable very easily in a respectable amount of time within age 3!

In case you go for a majorily sepoy/gurkha composition, going for the chaminar gate is kinda necessary, for the extra mahout you get upon age up (for snaring). So once you have that wonder you also have the possibility of getting a constant boost for your units (in comparison to the tower of victory).
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Re: Zams or Howdah as I reach Fortress age?

Post by WickedCossack »

Against goon/skir civs go zamb. Against non goon/skir civs do a sepoy/zamb mix.
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Re: Zams or Howdah as I reach Fortress age?

Post by Hazza54321 »

WickedCossack wrote:Against goon/skir civs go zamb. Against non goon/skir civs do a sepoy/zamb mix.

lol why just making more work for yourself ;)
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Re: Zams or Howdah as I reach Fortress age?

Post by gibson »

I have the most liked post therefore I am the most liked
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Re: Zams or Howdah as I reach Fortress age?

Post by amiggo1999 »

OP analysis skills @gibson :D
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Re: Zams or Howdah as I reach Fortress age?

Post by Gendarme »

gibson doesn't even need a book in logic with those analysis-capabilities.
Pay more attention to detail.
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Re: Zams or Howdah as I reach Fortress age?

Post by macacoalbino »

The thing with sepoy is that they get shit on by CIR skirms, also not as mobile as zambs...
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Re: Zams or Howdah as I reach Fortress age?

Post by amiggo1999 »

Well guess what zams get shit on by skirms without any upgrades xD

Not saying they are a bad unit(zams), but that sepoy are just worth going for due to many reasons, in many situation
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Re: Zams or Howdah as I reach Fortress age?

Post by macacoalbino »

Its not the same, cause zambs deal their max damage from range, not getting hit by skirms, while sepoy have to go melee!

Edit: But yeah, I agree that there's space for sepoy in age 3. The fact that you can save the wood from stable to get tbeir upgrade is an upside early in age 3.
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Re: Zams or Howdah as I reach Fortress age?

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Post by lemmings121 »

Going mass inf like pure sepoy gurka + sowars is viable only until a certain point, in the start of the game is great, but when mass starts getting bigger you just cant possibly ever engage. The guy with skirm goon (like @macacoalbino ) will kite you forever and never engage.

Its only good if you are against someone with poor micro (like me) that will stand and fight. Then sepoys do a great job.
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