How much do units gain from micro?

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Re: How much do units gain from micro?

Post by aaryngend »

Gendarme wrote:Callen has no idea what he is saying. Longbowmen kite just as good as cetan bows and aennas.

Gendarme stil giving (sarcastic) bad advice in 2017. Some things never change!
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Re: How much do units gain from micro?

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Post by Gendarme »

A part of me will always be with you, Aaryn_GenD.
Pay more attention to detail.
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Re: How much do units gain from micro?

Post by momuuu »

People overmicro all the time. Part of that is that its hard to know if micro is going to even increase the effectiveness or if you should just let it stand its ground and fight. I see micro as a pro, something to do after key tasks (especially completing unit batches, shipping shipments and managing large amounts of idle vills) have been completed.
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Re: How much do units gain from micro?

Post by Kaiserklein »

In early age 2 fights for example, micro matters a lot though
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Re: How much do units gain from micro?

Post by momuuu »

Some unit compositions yeah. Theres some really valuable micro things, hit n run with skirms for example, but there are also things that arent that beneficial, like drag boxing skirms vs other skirms instead of doing attack move, or really trying to micromanage hussar pathing.
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Re: How much do units gain from micro?

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Post by Gendarme »

Appreciate this, please.
Attachments
[RE SCN] Gendarme[FR] vs Queen Isabella[SP] vs Queen Elizabeth[BR] - Time to Micro.age3yrec
(1.23 MiB) Downloaded 35 times
Time to Micro
Time to Micro
Rules: Scenario (Free For All)
Version: Official Patch (Legacy)
Length: 16 minutes
Pay more attention to detail.
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Re: How much do units gain from micro?

Post by Garja »

Actually manually micrping skirms vs other skirms or even goons is what makes the difference between a decent and a good player in those type of situations.
It takes about 12-13 skirms to kill another skirm and since there are a lot of low army skimishes early on z moving is literally autolosing you them and putting you at disadvantage for the rest of the game. 20 skirm vs 20 skirm you should really try to kill 3 skirms every 2 volleys. With z move you are most likely to not kill a single one in 3 volleys.
To answer the original question: a lot. This game put lot of enphasis on micro. Two things are quite relevant in that sense: countersystem and relatively slow ROF of most units. For example you cant allow 40 skirms to shoot on hand cav aside from first volley (gonna be hard splitting them well in first shot). Same thing for goons when kiting you cant allow to let them overkill or kill none of opponent cav simply because their ROF is low and and cav instead has very high dps.
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Re: How much do units gain from micro?

Post by lordraphael »

Garja wrote:Actually manually micrping skirms vs other skirms or even goons is what makes the difference between a decent and a good player in those type of situations.
It takes about 12-13 skirms to kill another skirm and since there are a lot of low army skimishes early on z moving is literally autolosing you them and putting you at disadvantage for the rest of the game. 20 skirm vs 20 skirm you should really try to kill 3 skirms every 2 volleys. With z move you are most likely to not kill a single one in 3 volleys.
To answer the original question: a lot. This game put lot of enphasis on micro. Two things are quite relevant in that sense: countersystem and relatively slow ROF of most units. For example you cant allow 40 skirms to shoot on hand cav aside from first volley (gonna be hard splitting them well in first shot). Same thing for goons when kiting you cant allow to let them overkill or kill none of opponent cav simply because their ROF is low and and cav instead has very high dps.

something doesnt add up. Tho i agree picking off low health skirms is veri important.
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Re: How much do units gain from micro?

Post by Kaiserklein »

Garja wrote:Actually manually micrping skirms vs other skirms or even goons is what makes the difference between a decent and a good player in those type of situations.
It takes about 12-13 skirms to kill another skirm and since there are a lot of low army skimishes early on z moving is literally autolosing you them and putting you at disadvantage for the rest of the game. 20 skirm vs 20 skirm you should really try to kill 3 skirms every 2 volleys. With z move you are most likely to not kill a single one in 3 volleys.

Tbh almost no player even tries to split 20 skirms to kill 1.5 opponent skirms. It's anyway more important to have a proper positioning than to do this. And by proper positioning I mean for example having all your front skirms formed in a real line (because any of your skirms being alone in front can get sniped without you being able to dps), but also knowing how to lock fire with your skirms so that you get free kills if your opponent goes back (you can even trigger that by sending your hand cav slightly forward to scare him and get some free kills, because most players back their skirms too early).
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Re: How much do units gain from micro?

Post by NekoBerk »

Kaiserklein wrote:
Garja wrote:Actually manually micrping skirms vs other skirms or even goons is what makes the difference between a decent and a good player in those type of situations.
It takes about 12-13 skirms to kill another skirm and since there are a lot of low army skimishes early on z moving is literally autolosing you them and putting you at disadvantage for the rest of the game. 20 skirm vs 20 skirm you should really try to kill 3 skirms every 2 volleys. With z move you are most likely to not kill a single one in 3 volleys.

Tbh almost no player even tries to split 20 skirms to kill 1.5 opponent skirms. It's anyway more important to have a proper positioning than to do this. And by proper positioning I mean for example having all your front skirms formed in a real line (because any of your skirms being alone in front can get sniped without you being able to dps), but also knowing how to lock fire with your skirms so that you get free kills if your opponent goes back (you can even trigger that by sending your hand cav slightly forward to scare him and get some free kills, because most players back their skirms too early).

There are a few persons that split like 30 skirms in 2 groups (15 skirms each group), and they just hit and run with one group, they go back and they do the same with the other group, what do you think about this? is this good or unnecessary? :P
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Re: How much do units gain from micro?

Post by pecelot »

Garja wrote:It takes about 12-13 skirms to kill another skirm and since there are a lot of low army skimishes early on z moving is literally autolosing you them and putting you at disadvantage for the rest of the game. 20 skirm vs 20 skirm you should really try to kill 3 skirms every 2 volleys. With z move you are most likely to not kill a single one in 3 volleys.

I get your point about the fire split, but you definitely kill some skirmishers in 3 volleys while attack-moving. It's just that it's usually huge overkill.
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Re: How much do units gain from micro?

Post by yemshi »

You'll end up with a group of 8 skirms walking to the opponent's units instead of shooting because you'll misclick too often.
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Re: How much do units gain from micro?

Post by Kaiserklein »

NekoBerk wrote:
Kaiserklein wrote:
Garja wrote:Actually manually micrping skirms vs other skirms or even goons is what makes the difference between a decent and a good player in those type of situations.
It takes about 12-13 skirms to kill another skirm and since there are a lot of low army skimishes early on z moving is literally autolosing you them and putting you at disadvantage for the rest of the game. 20 skirm vs 20 skirm you should really try to kill 3 skirms every 2 volleys. With z move you are most likely to not kill a single one in 3 volleys.

Tbh almost no player even tries to split 20 skirms to kill 1.5 opponent skirms. It's anyway more important to have a proper positioning than to do this. And by proper positioning I mean for example having all your front skirms formed in a real line (because any of your skirms being alone in front can get sniped without you being able to dps), but also knowing how to lock fire with your skirms so that you get free kills if your opponent goes back (you can even trigger that by sending your hand cav slightly forward to scare him and get some free kills, because most players back their skirms too early).

There are a few persons that split like 30 skirms in 2 groups (15 skirms each group), and they just hit and run with one group, they go back and they do the same with the other group, what do you think about this? is this good or unnecessary? :P

Dunno in which case you would need to hit and run with 2*15 skirms. You mostly need 15 skirms to sniped goons or other skirms, and then you don't really need to hit and run usually. If you kite HI, 2*15 skirms is a big overkill, so better attack move anyway.
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Re: How much do units gain from micro?

Post by greatscythe11 »

Well, sometimes when fighting high hp anticav for example Howdah, black rider, skull knight(age IV) or ronin, what is the best approach? Do you focus for one shotting if u have barely the number needed or do you split manually or AM?It seems like the number of skirms has a bearing but can't say how exactly.
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Re: How much do units gain from micro?

Post by Kaiserklein »

Well against high hp anti cav the micro is easier, since you can split your skirms in bigger groups. So it shouldn't really be a problem anyway. Even if you click 50 skirms on 1 howdah it's still kinda efficient. Then if you can, splitting is always better.
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Re: How much do units gain from micro?

Post by Garja »

Again, splitting fire properly (especially with skirm) is what makes the difference between average and good players. So don't expect to see many people doing that. I personally always do that (took the habit long time ago) and also do that vs cav which is even more important because it's the difference between punishing a weak cav switch (when it is objectively not enough cav) or being punished by it.
Positioning is important but in 20 vs 20 skirms you are going to waste tons of dps by just z moving (especially if armies line up weirdly so that you either overkill or don't kill any). And by the time you try to correct you lost the skirmish and that snowballs in a losing position and in a lost game. Basically many situations are close to micro scenarios and you really need perfect micro. Aside from that good micro can be leveraged at virtually any point in the game to get a little edge. Treasure micro is important, right?!
Probably the reason why people understimate micro is that you need to be very on point to keep up with macro at the same time. I often fail at that because I'm nowhere as in shape as it requires to do both. But if you aspire to reach the top you can't ignore the importance of micro.
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Re: How much do units gain from micro?

Post by Dsy »

Its a small edge. Macro goes first, micro is secondary. Its much better to have 20 skirm than 10 skirm with perfect micro. If 10 skirm player has some knowlegde of the game he just hide his army until has the proper military number to defend or attack.
Micro is only for high level players where the macro part is already decent.
But most of the games in aoe3 depends on build orders even on high levels.
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Re: How much do units gain from micro?

Post by Garja »

Btw from what I see in casted games (so pretty much every level) people lose so many games by micro that it is safe to say that micro counts atleast for 50% in this game.
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Re: How much do units gain from micro?

Post by deleted_user0 »

Garja wrote:Btw from what I see in casted games (so pretty much every level) people lose so many games by micro that it is safe to say that micro counts atleast for 50% in this game.


Casted games are usually equal level though. Micro matters when otherwise skill level is about the same, but honestly at captain level there are more important things to focus on than micro. And while in a captain vs captain game micro can bw decisive, in capt vs lt col its most likely already going to be lost due to ther factors than micro
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Re: How much do units gain from micro?

Post by Garja »

Idk current meta is easy. Go semi, make an army, fight a big battle. Lot of games are lost because the army performs at like 60% max of its potential.
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Re: How much do units gain from micro?

Post by DaRkNiTe1698 »

Garja wrote:Idk current meta is easy. Go semi, make an army, fight a big battle. Lot of games are lost because the army performs at like 60% max of its potential.
So fucking arrogant.
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Re: How much do units gain from micro?

Post by Gichtenlord »

How is that arrogant?
r]
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Re: How much do units gain from micro?

Post by Imperial Noob »

Howdah - all the %
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Re: How much do units gain from micro?

Post by Hazza54321 »

DaRkNiTe1698 wrote:
Garja wrote:Idk current meta is easy. Go semi, make an army, fight a big battle. Lot of games are lost because the army performs at like 60% max of its potential.
So fucking arrogant.

Hes right though, and its not arrogant
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Re: How much do units gain from micro?

Post by deleted_user »

Why is he right, though? Dunning Krugerrrr effectttt!!!

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