How much do units gain from micro?

No Flag purplesquid
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How much do units gain from micro?

Post by purplesquid »

So we all know that a well micro'ed unit can be significantly more effective than a poorly (or non) micro'ed one, but exactly HOW much better can a unit become with good micro. For example a skirm gains a lot more from micro than a jan does. Given this, what would you say the increase in value "good" micro gives various units (skrims, muskets, halbs, hussar, dragoons, etc) under "normal" conditions.

For the sake of being able to make comparisons let's assume that good micro is pr 40+ (samwise, _H20, etc) and no micro is just straight up attack move. The army size/overall composition is normal mid fortress with about 60-80 military pop with a well rounded compostions (i.e. skirm/goon/huss or ashi/umi/nagi or rod/lancer/skirm)

My personal opinion for some units is as follows (given in % increase in value):

Skirms: 100%
Muskets: 25%
Hussar: 10%
Goons: 30%

What I mean by these percentages is that I would rather have say 10 skirms micro ed well (not a moving hussars) than 20 skirms that just attack move.

What are your opinions?

My hope it to get a general consensus of what units should be prioritized for micro.
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Re: How much do units gain from micro?

Post by deleted_user »

Which compositions* can become better with micro? And vs which compositions?
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New Zealand JakeyBoyTH
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Re: How much do units gain from micro?

Post by JakeyBoyTH »

Strelet 10000%

Not even kidding,

Dont prioritise your micro. Base micro on the battle/situation.
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Re: How much do units gain from micro?

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Post by Zutazuta »

6
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Re: How much do units gain from micro?

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Post by deleted_user »

Zutazuta wrote:6

shut down the forums. best post we've seen here yet. nothing can top this. immortalize this comment forever. share with little timmy your future grandchild. celebrate with reverence. cast concrete around these digital ones and zeros and see that it be forever cast and displayed in rigid vivdness. Broadcast intergalactictally via some sort of wavelength. Bear witness to history and weep at this man's great genius!
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Re: How much do units gain from micro?

Post by milku3459 »

deleted_user wrote:
Zutazuta wrote:6

shut down the forums. best post we've seen here yet. nothing can top this. immortalize this comment forever. share with little timmy your future grandchild. celebrate with reverence. cast concrete around these digital ones and zeros and see that it be forever cast and displayed in rigid vivdness. Broadcast intergalactictally via some sort of wavelength. Bear witness to history and weep at this man's great genius!


this man shall write the newsposts i can feel it in my bones
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Re: How much do units gain from micro?

Post by deleted_user0 »

About 7 inches if you properly micro your unit up And down for a minute

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Re: How much do units gain from micro?

Post by NekoBerk »

A few top players told me that you dont need to micro too much for get like pr 35 , just positioning and hit and run
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Re: How much do units gain from micro?

Post by pecelot »

It depends what you mean by the attack move stance — do you just drag-box your entire army or position them well and then leave them alone? If the latter, then micro isn't really necessary for the most part, especially with melee units.
It also depends on what you mean by good micro. Of course you wrote your requirements in the OP, but some may argue you could split fire perfectly with musketeers, tank a whole volley with one unit, switch to cover mode every time a shot is closing, micro your LB perfectly etc.
Another important factor is whether you kite — then you attack-move as well, right?
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Re: How much do units gain from micro?

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Post by _H2O »

Anything that doesn't have a loading animation benefits a ton. Hand cav benefit a ton. Especially vs muskets. You can kill 5 muskets vs 5 Huss without losing a hussar if controlled well.

Positioning of your army and how you use attack move in there is also micro.
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Re: How much do units gain from micro?

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Post by P i k i l i c »

A dragoon loses to anything without micro
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:hmm: AoE logic :hmm:
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Re: How much do units gain from micro?

Post by Kaiserklein »

Tbh every unit benefits a lot from micro. Surprisingly, musketeers without micro do bad. They lose to huss if you keep them in ranged mode, for example. But they also die if you they run in melee mode without attacking. So yeah, they're definitely not the hardest unit to micro, but you can still abuse someone not microing his musks. Then for skirms and goons you need to focus even more.
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Re: How much do units gain from micro?

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Post by __Uhlan__ »

NekoBerk wrote:A few top players told me that you dont need to micro too much for get like pr 35 , just positioning and hit and run


Basic micro with good macro/game knowledge gets you to pr35+ easy. Just need to be decent at kiting etc and knowing what fights to take and not to take. you don't got to be like h20 for sample spliting fire etc to become very good at the game. There are plenty of players who just win because of better build orders, I think a good example is boneng. But ofc good micro can win you a game you would of lost otherwise in a close game v another player of similar skill or in the mirror.
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Re: How much do units gain from micro?

Post by JakeyBoyTH »

__Uhlan__ wrote:
NekoBerk wrote:A few top players told me that you dont need to micro too much for get like pr 35 , just positioning and hit and run


Basic micro with good macro/game knowledge gets you to pr35+ easy. Just need to be decent at kiting etc and knowing what fights to take and not to take. you don't got to be like h20 for sample spliting fire etc to become very good at the game. There are plenty of players who just win because of better build orders, I think a good example is boneng. But ofc good micro can win you a game you would of lost otherwise in a close game v another player of similar skill or in the mirror.


If someone has a Yu-Gi-Oh fusion card we need to combine Ryan and Boneng and see what super-aoe player we get.
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Re: How much do units gain from micro?

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Post by Challenger_Marco »

Must watch this
phpBB [video]

Lol :lol:
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Re: How much do units gain from micro?

Post by tedere12 »

this video has nothing to do with micro
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Re: How much do units gain from micro?

Post by deleted_user0 »

JakeyBoyTH wrote:
__Uhlan__ wrote:
NekoBerk wrote:A few top players told me that you dont need to micro too much for get like pr 35 , just positioning and hit and run


Basic micro with good macro/game knowledge gets you to pr35+ easy. Just need to be decent at kiting etc and knowing what fights to take and not to take. you don't got to be like h20 for sample spliting fire etc to become very good at the game. There are plenty of players who just win because of better build orders, I think a good example is boneng. But ofc good micro can win you a game you would of lost otherwise in a close game v another player of similar skill or in the mirror.


If someone has a Yu-Gi-Oh fusion card we need to combine Ryan and Boneng and see what super-aoe player we get.


One that routinely stacks 4k food
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Re: How much do units gain from micro?

Post by lemmings121 »

__Uhlan__ wrote:
NekoBerk wrote:A few top players told me that you dont need to micro too much for get like pr 35 , just positioning and hit and run


Basic micro with good macro/game knowledge gets you to pr35+ easy. Just need to be decent at kiting etc and knowing what fights to take and not to take. you don't got to be like h20 for sample spliting fire etc to become very good at the game. There are plenty of players who just win because of better build orders, I think a good example is boneng. But ofc good micro can win you a game you would of lost otherwise in a close game v another player of similar skill or in the mirror.



well, kinda.
if you say that "micro is getting that one single unit and shot perfectly to make sure no dps is wasted" then yeah, micro is not necessary. 35+ easy without micro.

But if you call "army control/positioning/how to engage" micro, that is something I would consider of huge importance. What you call "basic micro" its actually very hard to do for 99% of the players.
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Re: How much do units gain from micro?

Post by momuuu »

NekoBerk wrote:A few top players told me that you dont need to micro too much for get like pr 35 , just positioning and hit and run

Microing bad fights is worse than not microing won fights. Its about picking your battles.
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Re: How much do units gain from micro?

Post by _NiceKING_ »

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Re: How much do units gain from micro?

Post by pecelot »

Kaiserklein wrote:Tbh every unit benefits a lot from micro. Surprisingly, musketeers without micro do bad. They lose to huss if you keep them in ranged mode, for example. But they also die if you they run in melee mode without attacking. So yeah, they're definitely not the hardest unit to micro, but you can still abuse someone not microing his musks. Then for skirms and goons you need to focus even more.

Do they do worse than skirms, though? :hmm: Plus melee-ing your muskets is already some sort of micro, so I wouldn't count that! :chinese:
tedere12 wrote:this video has nothing to do with micro

This post has nothing to do with humour :geek:
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Re: How much do units gain from micro?

Post by tedere12 »

me no humor no ban pls
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Re: How much do units gain from micro?

Post by Ashvin »

Actually micro can also decrease your performance tbh, and it's a real story in case you think otherwise.
After playing French in my early days on eso I switched to bits and I lost 3 matches in a row because I wanted to kite longbows. Fortunately Callen told me discord that lbs can't kite. But it was very embarrassing :(
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Re: How much do units gain from micro?

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Post by Gendarme »

Callen has no idea what he is saying. Longbowmen kite just as good as cetan bows and aennas.
Pay more attention to detail.
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Re: How much do units gain from micro?

Post by pecelot »

Ashvin wrote:Actually micro can also decrease your performance tbh, and it's a real story in case you think otherwise.
After playing French in my early days on eso I switched to bits and I lost 3 matches in a row because I wanted to kite longbows. Fortunately Callen told me discord that lbs can't kite. But it was very embarrassing :(

That's a very radical example as you just wasn't aware of unit's mechanics, I wouldn't take that as a general rule at all :hmm:

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