Japanese anti-Aztec build

Tunisia iLolicon
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Re: Japanese strat(Anti aztec build)

Post by iLolicon »

Kaiserklein wrote:
iLolicon wrote:Everyone who knows about it uses Alt + D on re, the only difference is some of us are less subtle about it. Actually it's funnier when people try to pretend like they aren't doing it. Also I've never understood why people are so quick to label cheating but at the same time are more than happy to use the kynesie wall glitch.

Lol no one with a bit of self-respect actually uses that. Though yeah a lot of people in qs don't have any self-respect, granted. But you can't say "everyone who knows about alt+d use it", it's far from being true, I play against people using alt + d in like 5% of my games max (and that's probably even an overstatement). There's barely more alt+d abusers than there are moesbar hackers tbh lol.
Also alt+d and the wall bug have nothing in common, why would you compare that? If you mean the kynesie stuff yea it's borderline cheating, since he has a special macro for that. But if you just mean deleting pillars, it's a hotkey everyone has, and it's definitely not game-breaking. Just saves a bit of wood, then up to you to use it or not. It btw takes extra apm to delete the pillars, and you also need to know how to do it properly to not have holes. It's really not a relevant comparison.


I mentioned the wall bug because it's another commonly used blatant exploit. You know full well that a 'bit' of wood can indeed be game changing. It's very easy to do and does not take up extra apm. It's literally 4 buttons (wall - [set hotkey] - delete - enter].

How do you know that people aren't using alt + d against you more often than you think? certain people I've played many a games with and just haven't noticed until they eventually stuffed up and did it in my LOS when they didn't realise they were. That makes me a lot more skeptical of all the earlier games where I'd originally considered they weren't using it.
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France Kaiserklein
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Re: Japanese strat(Anti aztec build)

Post by Kaiserklein »

Most people don't even know how to delete pillars without having holes after it lol. Either way it's not an exploit, it's just clever. I agree it's an awkward design but that's it, really. And it does take some time to do it properly, instead of clicking from A to B with your wall and it's done, you actually have to control every pair of wall segments you place and then delete the pillars.
Or then, if this is an exploit, what about microing treasures? Do you really think it was intended that the treasure guardians just get shot without doing anything when your explo is far enough from the treasure, and that people can theoretically take any treasure with melee guardians without losing a single HP because of that? I'm pretty sure this wasn't intended, so is it also an exploit? Let's be reasonable.
And no, the wall stuff isn't game changing lol, some top players don't even delete the pillars, which proves you wrong.

I know when people aren't using alt+d because it's obvious if they do, in most cases... If I killed the jap monks and the guy is shrining with them 30 sec later, or taking a tp or w/e, you know he did alt+d. Also I mostly don't play with assholes, so they don't do it. Just when I go qs against lamers I sometimes see it, but most of the time even those guys don't do it.
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LoOk_tOm wrote:I have something in particular against Kaisar (GERMANY NOOB mercenary LAMME FOREVER) And the other people (noobs) like suck kaiser ... just this ..
France Kaiserklein
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Re: Japanese strat(Anti aztec build)

Post by Kaiserklein »

Actually by checking your elo I can see you're most likely one of those lamers anyway, spamming qs with those civs. Which explains why you think alt+d is normal, and why you try to justify your own use of that cheat by saying everyone else does and it's fair.
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LoOk_tOm wrote:I have something in particular against Kaisar (GERMANY NOOB mercenary LAMME FOREVER) And the other people (noobs) like suck kaiser ... just this ..
Tunisia iLolicon
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Re: Japanese strat(Anti aztec build)

Post by iLolicon »

Kaiserklein wrote:Actually by checking your elo I can see you're most likely one of those lamers anyway, spamming qs with those civs. Which explains why you think alt+d is normal, and why you try to justify your own use of that cheat by saying everyone else does and it's fair.


My civ pool on one account doesn't really mean anything. I know I've done alt + d on stream with my other accounts before, and I'm not trying to justify it. I have never made any attempt to hide or be subtle about it.
My point is that more people should not pretend they aren't when they are. Obviously everyone is an exaggeration but I know there are at least several high level players who do it, and I'm willing to bet a whole lot more who do it secretly.

The wall bug is another blatant exploit. Comparing a pillarless wall to hero micro seems a lot more far-fetched than wall exploit to alt+d to me, but whatever. There's even a nice youtube video somewhere where a guy teaches noobs how to do it. Very easy to do. Some high level players choosing not to do it every game doesn't prove anything.


@Garja
Yes the nerf to walls on EP does sort of fix this and I have no argument with you there, but I was talking specifically about RE games.
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France Kaiserklein
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Re: Japanese strat(Anti aztec build)

Post by Kaiserklein »

If you admit that you abuse alt+d as though it was a normal thing, I shouldn't even discuss to you tbh. Not worth my time
No high level players that I know of use alt+d. Someone playing exclusively qs is not high level btw. Names?
The wall thing is no more an exploit than the hero thing. Or than the pull trick, hey do you really think they expected people to drag box their units to make them run faster?
High level players choosing to not delete pillars means that it doesn't make a big difference. If it did, they would all do it, since it's allowed in tourneys and it's a well-known trick. So it does prove that you have no clue.
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LoOk_tOm wrote:I have something in particular against Kaisar (GERMANY NOOB mercenary LAMME FOREVER) And the other people (noobs) like suck kaiser ... just this ..
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Re: Japanese strat(Anti aztec build)

Post by WickedCossack »

iLolicon wrote:Everyone who knows about it uses Alt + D on re, the only difference is some of us are less subtle about it. Actually it's funnier when people try to pretend like they aren't doing it. Also I've never understood why people are so quick to label cheating but at the same time are more than happy to use the kynesie wall glitch.


Wait what? Almost no one uses alt-d, at least at high level. Maybe it's more rampant at lower levels?

It's considered very bad etiquette and you're probably going to get pested.
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Re: Japanese strat(Anti aztec build)

Post by iLolicon »

[quote="WickedCossack"Wait what? Almost no one uses alt-d, at least at high level. Maybe it's more rampant at lower levels?[/quote]

Could be we just have a disagreement on what high level is, my apologies, maybe I'm thinking more medium level players then. I think of PR30 as quite high and the bulk of my games range from anyone around 22-30.

@Kaiserklein
Sorry but I'm not going to name and shame them. Seeing as they made an effort to hide it while playing just me they definitely aren't going to confess to it in a public forum, and I will just get attacked by a list of names in denial. I'm just trying to encourage them if they are going to do it anyway not to try and cover it up.

I don't do it often but I have before, especially at times being frustrated from quick search games.
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Re: Japanese strat(Anti aztec build)

Post by Gendarme »

I doubt that a lot of people at any skill level use Alt+D. I have never noticed anyone using it (and I play French, so I kill a lot of explorers), and my opponents are usually in the 22-30 range as well. Lower ranked players probably aren't even aware of the bug.
Pay more attention to detail.
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Re: Japanese strat(Anti aztec build)

Post by Garja »

Ye it's the just an excuse to keep using it, aware of the fact that, on average, you probably get an edge since some players don't know about it or are respectful and don't use it.
Honestly even if it was rampant that's not good reason to use it yourself. Also the fact that any decent player clearly recognize the difference between no-pillar walls and explorer glitch should be telling of the fact that they're not comparable at all.
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France Kaiserklein
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Re: Japanese strat(Anti aztec build)

Post by Kaiserklein »

Tbh from my experience, it's mostly some qs jap guys who use alt+d. I think it's not considered in the jap community as an exploit as much as it is in our community. Or then it was just a coincidence that I had a lot of jap players in qs doing that, idk
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LoOk_tOm wrote:I have something in particular against Kaisar (GERMANY NOOB mercenary LAMME FOREVER) And the other people (noobs) like suck kaiser ... just this ..
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Re: Japanese strat(Anti aztec build)

Post by momuuu »

Why do you have to ruin this thread.. Why are moderators doing nothing.
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Re: Japanese strat(Anti aztec build)

Post by Kaiserklein »

How is it ruined? Just because we changed the topic? There's still constructive discussion
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LoOk_tOm wrote:I have something in particular against Kaisar (GERMANY NOOB mercenary LAMME FOREVER) And the other people (noobs) like suck kaiser ... just this ..
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Re: Japanese strat(Anti aztec build)

Post by lordraphael »

this was about dydds jap build right? Imo it needs to be cleansed , but since the discussion was somewhat relevant all offtopic posts should be moved to a new thread and not just deleted
breeze wrote: they cant even guess how much f***ing piece of stupid retarded they look they are trying to give lesson to people who are over pr35 and know the best mu. im pretty sure that we need a page that only pr30+ post and then we could have a nice discussins.
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Re: Japanese strat(Anti aztec build)

Post by momuuu »

Yeah. You can't have serious discussion about the build anymore right now because it'll be lost in some discussion that I'm not interested in at all..
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Re: Japanese strat(Anti aztec build)

Post by Gendarme »

This isn't really a Q&A platform. Asking for people to create a new thread for every new thing that's being discussed is probably not feasible even if it were desirable, which I doubt it is. In a lot of cases the new thread wouldn't get created, because it is not a large enough topic of discussion - so we end up killing the flow of conversation mostly to satisfy our obsessive need for clean threads. Usually it is not hard for anyone to bring the discussion back on topic if they have something they want to say; the parallell discussion is not really an obstacle.
Pay more attention to detail.
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Re: Japanese strat(Anti aztec build)

Post by edeholland »

Let's go back to the topic of the OP. Off-topic posts from here on will be removed.
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Re: Japanese strat(Anti aztec build)

Post by Asateo »

Thx for the strat. I used to play japan a lot, but switched to India more because I was getting tired off weak early game (read being destroyed :P ).

I'll try it out.
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Re: Japanese strat(Anti aztec build)

Post by Lunatic_Fringe »

So is the Torri gates better than the Toshgu shrine in case of no shrine boom?
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Re: Japanese strat(Anti aztec build)

Post by yemshi »

Yes.
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Re: Japanese strat(Anti aztec build)

Post by Kaiserklein »

Definitely not on 300w start
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LoOk_tOm wrote:I have something in particular against Kaisar (GERMANY NOOB mercenary LAMME FOREVER) And the other people (noobs) like suck kaiser ... just this ..
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Re: Japanese strat(Anti aztec build)

Post by Lunatic_Fringe »

yemshi wrote:Yes.


Thank you!
The Toshugu is worth approx 2 vills if it is gathering from 8 herds right?
But what about the gathering boost that it gives to the other shrines. Is it not more valuable than the XP from the Torri? I mean, when not shrine booming, I'll make like 60-70 shrine pop, but as the game progresses, I'll get more shrines as the game progresses. Will that not be more beneficial having the Toshugu up?
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Re: Japanese strat(Anti aztec build)

Post by yemshi »

No.
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Re: Japanese strat(Anti aztec build)

Post by Asateo »

An allied player advised me to press alt-D once in a team-game (me playing India). And nothing happened. He was quit surprised. So maybe it just doesn't work with TAD civs? Anyway I have no habbit of using it but tried it chat time.
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Re: Japanese strat(Anti aztec build)

Post by wardyb1 »

Alt D works on all explorers as they all have cover mode. It is more likely you don't have advanced unit formations enabled so you can't trigger it.
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Re: Japanese strat(Anti aztec build)

Post by Asateo »

No, advanced unit type formation is on. I do switch musks to melee etc.

The hero's where not in cover mode when they died, probably it's that then?
To see a world in a grain of saind, A heaven in a wild flower
Hold infinity in the palm of you hand, And eternity in an hour
- William Blake, Auguries of Innocence

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