Japanese anti-Aztec build

Australia Hazza54321
Pro Player
Winter Champion 2020 x2Donator 01
Posts: 8049
Joined: May 4, 2015
ESO: PrinceofBabu

Re: Japanese strat(Anti aztec build)

Post by Hazza54321 »

Lol, you overate ashi so hard, and notice why people play jap on re and not ep.
You cant just make ashi vs spain and win, same with china, their cav are ranged in melee so ashi are still shooting. You also have to bear in mind those civs are so much faster than jap, like 830falcs with spain is hard to deal with, same for otto, lets not forget ashi are poor anticav and a poor unit before upgrades and most games you cant send them . @yurashic
No Flag deleted_user
Ninja
Posts: 14364
Joined: Mar 26, 2015

Re: Japanese strat(Anti aztec build)

Post by deleted_user »

China reks Jap with the all powerful 9 pike 8 cho 7 steppe semi - the single greatest strategy ever strategized.
User avatar
Italy Garja
Retired Contributor
Donator 02
Posts: 9729
Joined: Feb 11, 2015
ESO: Garja

Re: Japanese strat(Anti aztec build)

Post by Garja »

You can buy time in in many ways with Japan vs straight FFs. Raids, bit of walling, etc. Also can do vill pulls, MM card, etc. As long as you have a decent start you shouldn't have problem vs FFs (China one tho is very good and still sub 8 min time).
And ashi are still good, pricy but good. 0.5 speed, +1 attack, +20 hp, they do compensate for the extra cost. Melee attack might not be good but they still have .20 melee res which is what counter vs cav. Plus with extra speed and attack (and yumi attack) Japan kites better vs cav in general.
Image Image Image
User avatar
Poland pecelot
Retired Contributor
Donator 03
Posts: 10459
Joined: Mar 25, 2015
ESO: Pezet

Re: Japanese strat(Anti aztec build)

  • Quote

Post by pecelot »

@dyddyd91 added to the Strategy Wall :flowers:
User avatar
Russia yurashic
Howdah
Posts: 1303
Joined: Feb 28, 2015
ESO: Yurashic
Location: Russia

Re: Japanese strat(Anti aztec build)

Post by yurashic »

Hazza54321 wrote:Lol, you overate ashi so hard, and notice why people play jap on re and not ep.
You cant just make ashi vs spain and win, same with china, their cav are ranged in melee so ashi are still shooting. You also have to bear in mind those civs are so much faster than jap, like 830falcs with spain is hard to deal with, same for otto, lets not forget ashi are poor anticav and a poor unit before upgrades and most games you cant send them . @yurashic


People play Japan on RE more than on EP because bad maps don't matter for Japan.
User avatar
France Rikikipu
Retired Contributor
Posts: 1679
Joined: Feb 27, 2015
ESO: p-of
Location: In your base

Re: Japanese anti-Aztec build

Post by Rikikipu »

I think overall what nerfs the most Japan the most on EP is the fact that maps tend to be relatively small and overall more narrowed so can easily deny the japan player shrining. Lack of water for 3 boats seems to be a nerf in some extent too. Also yeah as yurashic has mentionned Japan is a safe pick on RE
Australia Hazza54321
Pro Player
Winter Champion 2020 x2Donator 01
Posts: 8049
Joined: May 4, 2015
ESO: PrinceofBabu

Re: Japanese anti-Aztec build

Post by Hazza54321 »

Rikikipu wrote:I think overall what nerfs the most Japan the most on EP is the fact that maps tend to be relatively small and overall more narrowed so can easily deny the japan player shrining. Lack of water for 3 boats seems to be a nerf in some extent too. Also yeah as yurashic has mentionned Japan is a safe pick on RE

yea this i agree with alot. RE maps were more open and had less food in general. Dont wanna sound like a dragging this out but ep maps really hurt japan due to layout and res.
User avatar
European Union Asateo
Dragoon
Posts: 426
Joined: Jun 14, 2017
ESO: Asateo
Location: Belgium

Re: Japanese anti-Aztec build

Post by Asateo »

I could make a seperate thread, but since we're talking about Japan here.

How do you guys take on Japan? I find myself often losing against them. Not being able to kill them early and afther that it seems basicly gg. Only chinese Flamethrower build works for me. I tried the chinese semi-ff ( @deleted_user4 ), but it didn't work, maybe because I went cho-steppe-pike, which makes sieging shrines late.
Anyway, when I play Japan I notice the same. Other people try to take shrines down or pressure, but berries close to tc is good vs raiding. Sieging shrines takes time (finding and destroying) and in the end they only cost 75w in most cases. Which still gives japan the time to boom.

Thus, to make it brief (if still possible), any suggestions would be appreciated.
To see a world in a grain of saind, A heaven in a wild flower
Hold infinity in the palm of you hand, And eternity in an hour
- William Blake, Auguries of Innocence
User avatar
Sweden Gendarme
Gendarme
Donator 03
Posts: 5132
Joined: Sep 11, 2016
ESO: Gendarme

Re: Japanese anti-Aztec build

Post by Gendarme »

The two ways that people generally play against Japan are sieging shrines while going to Fortress Age, or playing it very aggressive in Colonial Age (xbow/pike rush was very common a while back). The Japanese boom very quickly, so unless you're British you probably cannot afford to just chill out in Colonial Age while slowly sieging shrines.

A hussar semi FF is actually viable as well. If you think that you can manage to use your hussars to effectively force his monks to stay defensive and not shrine all over the map, he won't be able to boom heavily. Instead of just sieging his shrines with pikemen, you deny shrines with hussars and also siege a bit with your hussars. Stagecoach is generally also not bad since Japan is not very interested in trading posts.
Pay more attention to detail.
No Flag deleted_user
Ninja
Posts: 14364
Joined: Mar 26, 2015

Re: Japanese anti-Aztec build

Post by deleted_user »

Vs jap I do a few things as China.

1) early tp 9 pike 8 cho 7 steppe 700g semi
2) early tp 7 steppe 700w semi (dont send 700c - age to age II with 1 vill on summer palace and mine lots of gold)
User avatar
Tuvalu gibson
Ninja
ECL Reigning Champs
Posts: 13597
Joined: May 4, 2015
Location: USA

Re: Japanese anti-Aztec build

Post by gibson »

You can also just do a normal ff and have a decent shot of winning in early age 3 regardless of what the jap player does.
User avatar
European Union Asateo
Dragoon
Posts: 426
Joined: Jun 14, 2017
ESO: Asateo
Location: Belgium

Re: Japanese anti-Aztec build

Post by Asateo »

Oke, this is very helpful. Very agressive (sieging some shrines being to little) or straight FF. And kill the monks with cav if possilbe.

1) early tp 9 pike 8 cho 7 steppe 700g semi

@deleted_user4
Do you mean you don't make a house/get northeren refugees, just go 10/10?
To see a world in a grain of saind, A heaven in a wild flower
Hold infinity in the palm of you hand, And eternity in an hour
- William Blake, Auguries of Innocence
No Flag deleted_user
Ninja
Posts: 14364
Joined: Mar 26, 2015

Re: Japanese anti-Aztec build

Post by deleted_user »

Since China has a set wood crate start you can always early tp and make just 1 village and still send refugees. I like this opening more than two villages
User avatar
European Union Asateo
Dragoon
Posts: 426
Joined: Jun 14, 2017
ESO: Asateo
Location: Belgium

Re: Japanese anti-Aztec build

Post by Asateo »

Yes, that's what I often do as well. Just thought you might want to age up asap.
To see a world in a grain of saind, A heaven in a wild flower
Hold infinity in the palm of you hand, And eternity in an hour
- William Blake, Auguries of Innocence
No Flag deleted_user
Ninja
Posts: 14364
Joined: Mar 26, 2015

Re: Japanese anti-Aztec build

Post by deleted_user »

10/10s, 13/10s, 12/10s are generally pretty bad
User avatar
China fei123456
Jaeger
Posts: 3283
Joined: Apr 23, 2015
ESO: fei123456
Location: Alderaan

Re: Japanese strat(Anti aztec build)

Post by fei123456 »

Hazza54321 wrote:Lol, you overate ashi so hard, and notice why people play jap on re and not ep.
You cant just make ashi vs spain and win, same with china, their cav are ranged in melee so ashi are still shooting. You also have to bear in mind those civs are so much faster than jap, like 830falcs with spain is hard to deal with, same for otto, lets not forget ashi are poor anticav and a poor unit before upgrades and most games you cant send them . @yurashic

Vs spain: boom 20 shrines, send CM, call 4+4+11+11mm to kill cannons, ez win
User avatar
Switzerland sebnan12
Jaeger
Posts: 2311
Joined: Nov 15, 2015
ESO: Mongobillione
Location: Switzerland

Re: Japanese anti-Aztec build

Post by sebnan12 »

couprider1-0hazza54321
"Why are you trying to lecture me on my own language, no wonder you people shit in the open street."- Riotcoke

''man he's slow rolling him more than a fish on a royal flush'' - Garja

NEED MORE XP
No Flag tedere12
Jaeger
Posts: 3449
Joined: Jun 8, 2015

Re: Japanese anti-Aztec build

Post by tedere12 »

well actually there are some game between h2o and kingofosmane japan vs spain from like 2 years ago on ryans stream. he pretty much went 600w 4 4 late double and flanked the spanish army from 2-3 sides and won
No Flag deleted_user0
Ninja
Posts: 13004
Joined: Apr 28, 2020

Re: Japanese strat(Anti aztec build)

Post by deleted_user0 »

fei123456 wrote:
Hazza54321 wrote:Lol, you overate ashi so hard, and notice why people play jap on re and not ep.
You cant just make ashi vs spain and win, same with china, their cav are ranged in melee so ashi are still shooting. You also have to bear in mind those civs are so much faster than jap, like 830falcs with spain is hard to deal with, same for otto, lets not forget ashi are poor anticav and a poor unit before upgrades and most games you cant send them . @yurashic

Vs spain: boom 20 shrines, send CM, call 4+4+11+11mm to kill cannons, ez win


Instead you get rektvby a good spain player who revos and crushes your pathetic army because you wasted a card.
User avatar
China fei123456
Jaeger
Posts: 3283
Joined: Apr 23, 2015
ESO: fei123456
Location: Alderaan

Re: Japanese anti-Aztec build

Post by fei123456 »

You can send cm until you see his cannons. Spain won't do too much in 40 secs.
No Flag deleted_user0
Ninja
Posts: 13004
Joined: Apr 28, 2020

Re: Japanese anti-Aztec build

Post by deleted_user0 »

fei123456 wrote:You can send cm until you see his cannons. Spain won't do too much in 40 secs.


Thats risky, you may not have a card, and if youre always saving a card, its basically the same. Simply shouldnt work vs spain that doesnt do piro.
User avatar
Switzerland sebnan12
Jaeger
Posts: 2311
Joined: Nov 15, 2015
ESO: Mongobillione
Location: Switzerland

Re: Japanese anti-Aztec build

Post by sebnan12 »

if spain ages by 6.50 to 7.10 its unlikely that hes going to revolt behind that because he will have a super bad eco and spain hasnt got 1000 gold
"Why are you trying to lecture me on my own language, no wonder you people shit in the open street."- Riotcoke

''man he's slow rolling him more than a fish on a royal flush'' - Garja

NEED MORE XP
User avatar
Italy Garja
Retired Contributor
Donator 02
Posts: 9729
Joined: Feb 11, 2015
ESO: Garja

Re: Japanese anti-Aztec build

Post by Garja »

Can send 700g 5v 600g 1000f 1000w.
Image Image Image
No Flag deleted_user0
Ninja
Posts: 13004
Joined: Apr 28, 2020

Re: Japanese anti-Aztec build

Post by deleted_user0 »

sebnan12 wrote:if spain ages by 6.50 to 7.10 its unlikely that hes going to revolt behind that because he will have a super bad eco and spain hasnt got 1000 gold


No reason to have a bad eco, the eco is exactly the same, but just 2 vils less. Its not a huge deal
User avatar
Switzerland sebnan12
Jaeger
Posts: 2311
Joined: Nov 15, 2015
ESO: Mongobillione
Location: Switzerland

Re: Japanese anti-Aztec build

Post by sebnan12 »

well if hes aging at 6:40 -7:10 hes likely doing streight ff and if theres no push coming soon hes either doing a bad fi or massing up so u have a small window to chose wether u send cm or not.. i guess its very hard for japan to decide but i think their favored imo
"Why are you trying to lecture me on my own language, no wonder you people shit in the open street."- Riotcoke

''man he's slow rolling him more than a fish on a royal flush'' - Garja

NEED MORE XP

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 8 guests

Which top 10 players do you wish to see listed?

All-time

Active last two weeks

Active last month

Supremacy

Treaty

Official

ESOC Patch

Treaty Patch

1v1 Elo

2v2 Elo

3v3 Elo

Power Rating

Which streams do you wish to see listed?

Twitch

Age of Empires III

Age of Empires IV