How to counter age 3 India...or when to attack?

[Asateo]

U should play fre vs india MU enough talking!

Ports do well too in my experience.

[NyxAchlys9]

U should play fre vs india MU enough talking!

Ports do well too in my experience.

I'm not sure Portugal do to well due to their inability to perform as strongly in such a colonial-based game, especially given the large siege capabilities of India in the early stages of the game - which would take away the large defence bonus of the second town centre.

[Asateo]

U should play fre vs india MU enough talking!

Ports do well too in my experience.

I'm not sure Portugal do to well due to their inability to perform as strongly in such a colonial-based game, especially given the large siege capabilities of India in the early stages of the game - which would take away the large defence bonus of the second town centre.

You mean flail elefants?
In my experience ports goes straight up to fortress relying on tc fire and cm for defense. Getting to fortress sooner goons come out killing age 3 siege elephants and kite urumi's.
Anyway, I'm happy to hear how you would do it, since I play India.

[xhuggels]

Dangerous though it may be, the india rush really struggle vs raids. Maybe a samwise build with rax and stable is the best option ?

thats probably the way to go as you have a stable for goons already then, though in colonial its probably best to keep cav numbers to the bare minimum for raiding ,while keeping the musk count at the level required to at least keep sepoy from walking over you, but it needs to transition into a slightly delayed semi real soon. maybe do the first 5 musk 3-4 huss batch, followed by another batch or two of musks at most, and switch into prioritizing the age up. 10-15 musks with TC fire and MM can hold off most sepoy pushes, at least long enough to get to fortress and send skrims(if he plays colonial) or goons(if you have the numerical advantage, meaning hes saving for one of em shipments)

[fei123456]

French
Forward agra: rax start musk semi
In home agra/karni mata: cav semi or straight ff

Brit
If he doesnt rush you, just outboom him hard

[Miqueias]

you need mass more dragon because can micro against urumi and mahout so semi ff cav is better because you can force him make some sepoy and age up later

[Miqueias]

i have lost because of this 2 units( of cource with sepoy and gurka help), i was with just 1 stable and 2 rax i made semi musk, when age3 came for both of us i was in trouble to mass dragon, so i was good in hold gurka sepoy mass when this 2 army came LOL, 8 dragon or 10, around 25 shirm VS 20 gurka, 10 sepoy , 7 urumi and 2 mahout NO CHANCE

[Miqueias]

That video man ? really? Now i understand why you think is hard to deal with indian fortress age, maybe you are playing like this french guy, he made around 30 musks and just use it in age 3
Was with 2 cannon and just move to agra 3 min after, he destroyed the agra, he move to caravel around 2 min later and lost that 2 cannons even with alot musks and cuiraseurs close enough to protect, how he can win the game this way ?
It is same like do 50 musks and go to tc of enime when he is in age 4 with alot heavy cannons and shirmishers wait you, he just let him boom and spam army

[macacoalbino]

Dangerous though it may be, the india rush really struggle vs raids. Maybe a samwise build with rax and stable is the best option ?

That plays into india's game. You sack your eco and delay your ageup, giving them time to outboom and outclass you in colonial

[pecelot]

What about 700w -> 4 CDBs -> 700c for France? With 700w you get xbows to scare off starting sepoys, then mix in some muskets vs sowars and try to hold a timing that will eventually come once you're aging with MM. I found the 700-w openings pretty effective against rushes as Spain or Portugal, too, for instance.

[deleted_user0]

Dangerous though it may be, the india rush really struggle vs raids. Maybe a samwise build with rax and stable is the best option ?

i don't think india struggles that hard. they have the melee mm which lose health much slower. and they can send 4 sowar back to base. if the hunts are ok, india should be fine. but ye it's a weakness.

[momuuu]

I'm not sure a musk or bow semi is that great vs consulate rush, which is quite a thing on its own. I see a lot of people in this thread just talk about "against rush" but there's a ton of difference between a 10/10, a slow sepoy rush and a consulate rush, and I do not think it's warranted to talk about them as the same thing.

Here's my perception:
- 10/10 rush is useless, french villagers are too resilient so you won't do enough damage
- Slow agra rush can work. However with a rax start France can quite easily hold this off with 5-10 musks, 8 bow shipment and mm, and end up aging in good position. Key thing here is that France doesn't use the 2 falcs defensively but ships skirmishers, stabilizes and then uses the falcs to push. I do not think France would need cuirasiers or goons that badly, just a few, so I'd consider actually not getting a stable. Anyways, if France doesn't misplay they will age and then if they can get the agra France wins the game. I'd say 4 CDB 8 bows 700g as the bo, or even 4 CDB 700g 8 bows. Not sure if the latter build order hits in time, but it allows for you to adapt if India doesn't come with 4 sowar but rather transitions out of rushing.
- Consulate rush is the strongest build order imo. I think India can opt for a TP in transition, although this build order is quite tricky, but in the case it's a livestock map the livestock will give enough xp to make this build order deadly and possibly make it india favored. 12 sepoy, 6 redcoats, followed up by more sepoy and 4 sowar is a force to be reckoned with. I strongly doubt the rax semi from France actually wins this match up. I can even see india scout the rax play and end up starting out with a gurka batch for a more efficient army. Hussars aren't good enough vs this sort of timing push and hussar raiding can be delayed enough by just using the minutemen effectively, so I don't consider stable start viable. The one thing I find interesting for france is doing a straight FF. I've been trying 700g 4 CDB, with just a rax and efficient walls + some gates. Make skirms, use TC and minutemen against the sowar, together with vills, and I think france wins. The consulate rush is too slow to actually idle you before you're happily aged I think.
- Defensive agra/boomy play with 600w or large trickle first is not good enough I think. Only if you manage to trick the France player into overreacting to your BO, can you win. As france, huss semi FF is king here, but a 5 musk semi or something will work too.
- Karni mata play. This is the same as the defensive agra, except that india can start zambs and counter hussars, so France probably wants to do something like a 4 CDB 700w naked FF to beat india. Should be quite easy for france.