Beating Sioux (RE)

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Beating Sioux (RE)

Post by Asateo »

How do you best beat Sioux? I'm having trouble with them.
I've read couple of times that they're broken with OP cav and weak infantry, but never considered them strong per se. Now however I find myself time and time again beaten by them. :unsure:

Only once with india in the recent past I won and that was because I was allowed to boom.

I read (@deleted_user ) that Indian 10/10 does the trick. That's good to know :chinese:, but are there less "all in" ways to be succesfull (not just with India)?
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Re: Beating Sioux (RE)

Post by lemmings121 »

Rushes are probably the most comum way to counter sioux, especially as india. 1010 works well, but even standard slow agra or consulate rush works. You can go defensive agra for zamb gurkha, but imo its harder and not necessarily better.
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Re: Beating Sioux (RE)

Post by Mr_Bramboy »

India 10/10 12 sepoy warchief or india 200/200 6 walls

The 10/10 doesn't work against umeu because he goes for terrible strats.
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Re: Beating Sioux (RE)

Post by momuuu »

10/10 is really good, I think consulate rush is good too (but possibly countered by straight FF?) and I think even slow sepoy rush is good. With the latter I'd try to make it as fast as the slow sepoy rush can be, maybe cut a vill or market upgrade for a while, and when he seems to be close to aging I'd start adding in gurka. Maybe if you do go 300e (say something like 5 sepoy 600w/large trickle and then 300e) I'd just get british consulate for more redcoats. Don't actually be scared of the town center, it doesnt have minutemen and there's not much in age 2 that can pop out thats dangerous to sepoy. And even if it does pop out, you'd rather have your sepoy on top of it. Sioux really lack in the defensive options tbh.

That being said, on RE I guess bow riders are a bit stronger so you'd have to add some more gurka maybe but I dont think they can beat sepoy anyways. Also if he doesn't make many units just sieging down the TC is not a bad play.
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Re: Beating Sioux (RE)

Post by deadrising78 »

almost any fast rush really
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Re: Beating Sioux (RE)

Post by Mr_Bramboy »

Jerom wrote:10/10 is really good, I think consulate rush is good too (but possibly countered by straight FF?) and I think even slow sepoy rush is good. With the latter I'd try to make it as fast as the slow sepoy rush can be, maybe cut a vill or market upgrade for a while, and when he seems to be close to aging I'd start adding in gurka. Maybe if you do go 300e (say something like 5 sepoy 600w/large trickle and then 300e) I'd just get british consulate for more redcoats. Don't actually be scared of the town center, it doesnt have minutemen and there's not much in age 2 that can pop out thats dangerous to sepoy. And even if it does pop out, you'd rather have your sepoy on top of it. Sioux really lack in the defensive options tbh.

That being said, on RE I guess bow riders are a bit stronger so you'd have to add some more gurka maybe but I dont think they can beat sepoy anyways. Also if he doesn't make many units just sieging down the TC is not a bad play.

Sioux hasn't started building a stable when your sepoy walk in with a 10/10.
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Re: Beating Sioux (RE)

Post by momuuu »

Yeah but he said he didnt want to 10/10 so..
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Re: Beating Sioux (RE)

Post by tedere12 »

vs 10/10 u can ageup fast
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Re: Beating Sioux (RE)

Post by Hidddy_ »

I found brits defense with longbows works reasonably well. Regardless of the matchup you will have to herd very well as their cav is lame (even lamer w/ wc speed boost). You do want to scout what they are making though. If I see my opponent actually making Axe Rider's then a musk defense is fine. If they go for typical Bow rider then longbows are good. Watch out for 4 AR shipment though, if that's all the hand cav your opponent mixes in then you only need a couple of musk. In my experience musk don't do too well in stopping bow rider raids because of their speed, and the bow rider being such a strong unit.

Edit: defensive building structures also help (manors, barracks, age up tower)
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Re: Beating Sioux (RE)

Post by Asateo »

Oke, thanks :flowers: , rushing and defensive longbows. I'll definitely try it out.
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Re: Beating Sioux (RE)

Post by Hidddy_ »

Eventually though you will have to break out of your base against Sioux, but by that time your mass should be good enough to face Sioux's straight on and you pretty much just win at that point. Just make sure you're not caught off guard by a hand cav switch
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Re: Beating Sioux (RE)

Post by NyxAchlys9 »

tedere12 wrote:vs 10/10 u can ageup fast


I don't like the strat it often flails.
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Re: Beating Sioux (RE)

Post by deleted_user0 »

lemmings121 wrote:Rushes are probably the most comum way to counter sioux, especially as india. 1010 works well, but even standard slow agra or consulate rush works. You can go defensive agra for zamb gurkha, but imo its harder and not necessarily better.


standard 12 sepoy rushes don't work on good maps. they only work maps where sioux is slow because hunts are bad. 10/10 sepoy rush works on any map.
Same with otto. 5 jan 3 huss rush works, while double rax jans is already risky, and jan abus just loses, although its a close mu. again, map matters alot here. if otto's hunts are exposed, they just lose. if sioux's hunts or mine are exposed, they're in danger too.
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Re: Beating Sioux (RE)

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Post by deleted_user0 »

Mr_Bramboy wrote:India 10/10 12 sepoy warchief or india 200/200 6 walls

The 10/10 doesn't work against umeu because he goes for op and ingenius strats.

10/10 actually does work. the slow agra rushes and consulate rushes fail. 200/200 with 6 layers of walls would probably work as well. walling to ff + howdah might work too if the sioux player misreads your intention and doesnt spam mass bowrider wakina with upgrades from the beginning.

Asateo wrote:How do you best beat Sioux? I'm having trouble with them.
I've read couple of times that they're broken with OP cav and weak infantry, but never considered them strong per se. Now however I find myself time and time again beaten by them. :unsure:

Only once with india in the recent past I won and that was because I was allowed to boom.

I read (@deleted_user ) that Indian 10/10 does the trick. That's good to know :chinese:, but are there less "all in" ways to be succesfull (not just with India)?


best way vs sioux is either heavy infantry all in (either bow pike, or just pure musk type) or otherwise very defensive turtle with civs that have an eco advantage. in that case, never push, it's better to just go on mills rather than leave your base. in your base sioux can't win a fight because of pathing. while outside your base you can't win a fight before 20 minutes because sioux's army, when sioux can mass without having eco touched, is unbeatable before 20 minutes into the game. you do have to make army though, because if you don't make army, siege dance will just destroy your base. Ports with CM and with a lot of walls, a fort and towers is kinda the exception here. Walling is never bad vs sioux, so you can always make 1 layer, but if you want to turtle, should make atleast 3 layers, but shouldnt make them too close to each other, so infantry can hide in between the walls if you need it. in general playing vs sioux is boring. but playing as sioux is a lot of fun. kinda like japan i guess.

NyxAchlys9 wrote:
I don't like the strat it often flails.


then you're either doing it wrong, or doing it in the wrong mu's.
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Re: Beating Sioux (RE)

Post by Withen »

The last game I remember playing versus Sioux was weird. As far as I remember they broke my initial set up (TC included) but I think they might have sieged VC manors because I ended up being able to set up a different kind of turtle... so they died via outposts/lbows when they tried to push in and eventually lost too many TCs to grens. The earliest game I remember (also my first) was somewhat similar... I was stuck in my base but they couldn't get in. And then I forgot to use my monitors to break the trade monopoly. So you still need to be able to fight their units this way.

(I have some screenshots of the first game, which was actually the third ranked one I played so happened much earlier than I remembered, where I really can't see how I won. I had fewer vills because he killed so many and 88f, 112w and 182g and was in colonial to their fortress. I guess it was the wall.)
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Re: Beating Sioux (RE)

Post by Darwin_ »

musk rush with pretty much any civ that can do it will work quite well.
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Re: Beating Sioux (RE)

Post by tedere12 »

musk with some bow mixed even better from my experience
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Re: Beating Sioux (RE)

Post by Darwin_ »

tedere12 wrote:musk with some bow mixed even better from my experience

Yeah bows help a lot. Same with huss.
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