skirm / goon micro

[IntrepidExplorer]

Lately I've been struggling with civs like France and Dutch in battles, where I seem to just lose an inordinate number of skirms or all my goons seem to die faster than I kill my opponent's army, even if we start with a relatively similar military pop. So I was wondering, what actually is the correct way to micro a pure skirm / goon fight? I would assume things change when you throw hand cav into the mix, so assume there are none.

[Frost Bite]

Considering skirms can attack goons, how about putting some of ur goons in melee mode and get them straight into enemy skirms, during a fight?

[noissance]

From what I've seen of the Livestream of top players, it seems to be a hit/run for the attacker, and a more campy playstyle for the defender. I believe in the case where your armies are equal, you want to split the enemy's goons from their skirms, and chip them away one by one, without losing any. This assumes they don't get a reinforcing batch out. If you forget to reinforce or can't afford to, consider sacrificing a few units to run away, as a diversion for the enemy's attack move.

[IntrepidExplorer]

Considering skirms can attack goons, how about putting some of ur goons in melee mode and get them straight into enemy skirms, during a fight?

I have tried this, but the enemy goons just kill your goons faster than you kill his skirms, and you're left with too many skirms and not enough goons, leaving you vulnerable.

[IntrepidExplorer]

I believe in the case where your armies are equal, you want to split the enemy's goons from their skirms, and chip them away one by one, without losing any.

If you just have goons and skirms vs goons and skirms how are you supposed to "split" the goons away, and even then, wouldn't you lose more skirms to walking forward too much with them to make the trade cost-effective?

[Frost Bite]

Considering skirms can attack goons, how about putting some of ur goons in melee mode and get them straight into enemy skirms, during a fight?

I have tried this, but the enemy goons just kill your goons faster than you kill his skirms, and you're left with too many skirms and not enough goons, leaving you vulnerable.

How is that vulnerable .. when the units are goons and skirms?

[noissance]

I believe in the case where your armies are equal, you want to split the enemy's goons from their skirms, and chip them away one by one, without losing any.

If you just have goons and skirms vs goons and skirms how are you supposed to "split" the goons away, and even then, wouldn't you lose more skirms to walking forward too much with them to make the trade cost-effective?

You want to bait the enemy by constantly hitting and running. It seems the pros know the ranges of the units really well so they know when to a-move and when to micro units away. Most players a move, so you have to find the unit thats being targeted by the command ai, and manually drag it back. This will make the ai for the attack move follow that 1 unit, and if the enemy isnt paying attention, will end up an easy kill.

[Dsy]

I dont understand the question. You and also your opponent has only skirm goon? Since then you fight only with skirm and never get involved the goons.
Then the fight looks like you shoot each other for ages with skirms.

[Kaiserklein]

The point of having goons is to be ready for your opponent switching to cav. Otherwise you would just go pure skirms, as they are simply superior in ranged fights. So the key is: don't overmake goons. If you can get away with having more skirms, without dying to a cav switch, it means you're winning the fight. So try to figure out how many goons you need; early on, usually just enough to one shoot a cav should be enough. Later on, maybe 15-20 goons.

The other thing is: don't fight with your goons. Use only your skirms. As I said you shouldn't have a ton of goons; so they're not really going to add a lot of dps. They're just gonna die when your opponent hits and runs them, making you weaker against the said potential cav switch.

So, basically, just attack move your skirms, and keep your goons in the back. If you're winning the skirm fight, then just keep on making skirms and widen the gap. If your skirm lead is big enough, add a few extra goons just in case. If you're losing the skirm fight, you should probably go back and prepare a cav switch yourself, unless it's a match up where you know you can come back in the skirm count. When fighting with cav, bring your skirms forward to snipe the goons, and bring your cav on top of his units and just attack move.

[Ashvin]

This guy writes some of the best paragraphs here.

[Gendarme]

GOTO kaisersPost

[Hazza54321]

just z move skirms, foucs low hp ones

[Gendarme]

How do you manage to write a contradictory sentence with only eight words? You never cease to impress, nippleboy.

[princeofkabul]

harry is special

[deleted_user0]

Moving skirms and goons back z-moving
Ye that's right how the game should be played!!! One day you will become a great player

Moving musks and cav forward and z-moving
Fucking disgrace, that's how the game must not be played!! Nerf all muskets, that's a no skill way to play!!!!

esoc in nutshell

[Kaiserklein]

Moving skirms and goons back z-moving
Ye that's right how the game should be played!!! One day you will become a great player

Moving musks and cav forward and z-moving
Fucking disgrace, that's how the game must not be played!! Nerf all muskets, that's a no skill way to play!!!!

esoc in nutshell

But skirm goon is supposed to be the counter...

[noissance]

Moving skirms and goons back z-moving
Ye that's right how the game should be played!!! One day you will become a great player

Moving musks and cav forward and z-moving
Fucking disgrace, that's how the game must not be played!! Nerf all muskets, that's a no skill way to play!!!!

esoc in nutshell

But skirm goon is supposed to be the counter...

On RE sepoy + Rajput (close enough to musk huss)> all

[deleted_user0]

Moving skirms and goons back z-moving
Ye that's right how the game should be played!!! One day you will become a great player

Moving musks and cav forward and z-moving
Fucking disgrace, that's how the game must not be played!! Nerf all muskets, that's a no skill way to play!!!!

esoc in nutshell

But skirm goon is supposed to be the counter...

Why? Musks are supposed to beat cav and hussars are supposed to beat skirms.

[noissance]

^ only in melee, hussar have terrible pathing with z move though so you can rarely take advantage of attack move.

[bwinner]

Moving skirms and goons back z-moving
Ye that's right how the game should be played!!! One day you will become a great player

Moving musks and cav forward and z-moving
Fucking disgrace, that's how the game must not be played!! Nerf all muskets, that's a no skill way to play!!!!

esoc in nutshell

But skirm goon is supposed to be the counter...

Why? Musks are supposed to beat cav and hussars are supposed to beat skirms.

Musk aren't really supposed to counter goons lol, they are supposed to counter heavy cav

[deleted_user0]

Show hidden quotes

Moving skirms and goons back z-moving
Ye that's right how the game should be played!!! One day you will become a great player

Moving musks and cav forward and z-moving
Fucking disgrace, that's how the game must not be played!! Nerf all muskets, that's a no skill way to play!!!!

esoc in nutshell

But skirm goon is supposed to be the counter...

Why? Musks are supposed to beat cav and hussars are supposed to beat skirms.

Musk aren't really supposed to counter goons lol, they are supposed to counter heavy cav

Nope. They have bonus vs all cav, not only heavy cav like goons.

[bwinner]

Show hidden quotes

Moving skirms and goons back z-moving
Ye that's right how the game should be played!!! One day you will become a great player

Moving musks and cav forward and z-moving
Fucking disgrace, that's how the game must not be played!! Nerf all muskets, that's a no skill way to play!!!!

esoc in nutshell

But skirm goon is supposed to be the counter...

Why? Musks are supposed to beat cav and hussars are supposed to beat skirms.

Musk aren't really supposed to counter goons lol, they are supposed to counter heavy cav

Nope. They have bonus vs all cav, not only heavy cav like goons.

Is it a fucking joke ? Their bonus is only for handcombat, so you cant use it vs goon...
Why should I explain this things to you ? Stop being bad faith please and admit when you say shit, you perfectly know that :
HI/RC+RI<RI+HC<HC+HI/RI<HI/RC+RI

[deleted_user0]

Show hidden quotes

Moving skirms and goons back z-moving
Ye that's right how the game should be played!!! One day you will become a great player

Moving musks and cav forward and z-moving
Fucking disgrace, that's how the game must not be played!! Nerf all muskets, that's a no skill way to play!!!!

esoc in nutshell

But skirm goon is supposed to be the counter...

Why? Musks are supposed to beat cav and hussars are supposed to beat skirms.

Musk aren't really supposed to counter goons lol, they are supposed to counter heavy cav

Nope. They have bonus vs all cav, not only heavy cav like goons.

Is it a fucking joke ? Their bonus is only for handcombat, so you cant use it vs goon...
Why should I explain this things to you ? Stop being bad faith please and admit when you say shit, you perfectly know that :
HI/RC+RI<RI+HC<HC+HI/RI<HI/RC+RI

Na, you can push your muskets between skirms and goons, huss on skirms and prevent goon from protecting the skirms. Muskets are supposed to beat goons even in ranged combat since goons are better HC counters.

Also pikes were supposed to beat goons because this game was designed for low pr games. That's why they suck so hard ingame

Saying skirm goon > musk huss is simply your own conclusion and when you lose those battles you think the game is not balanced and cry like babies.
Skirm goon "seems" to win because very usual situation is veteran goon+veteran skirm vs colonial musk huss

[princeofkabul]

muskets are designed as an all around unit. while pikes are designed as hard counter unit to heavy melee cav. i disagree that pikes are supposed to beat goons when it's matter of unit control which is part of rts games.

[Garja]

Skirm goon > musk huss because it's 2 hard counter vs two not hard counters. That said it depends on ups and shit but in even numbers and same ups skirm goon is just the hard counter.