I'm really struggling using China in team games. Are they viable on re patch? They don't seem to see much high level play and from my experience it's because of banner armies and their anti-cav problem. The only time I seem to find success is when I have a Port, French, Brit, India ally etc to mass goons/Zams to cover my anti-cav needs while shipping Old Han. I'm looking tips in 3vs3 games. More specifically, how long should I stay age 2 and what units to make in age 3. Or should I FF? Or perhaps is a semi with a few bow/pike batches then to age 3? Which does everyone find best. I never know what do when hit age 3, should I stop bow/pike production in favour of Skirm/Sword combo? I get extremely angry I can't seem to stop enemy skirm from kitting my Bows plus there Cav going toe to toe with my pikes :/ Is it viable to simply make Skirm/Sword combo age 4 even if you have Old Han?
And if I do need to make anti Cav are Keshniks worth even making?
China in Team
Re: China in Team
What build(s) are you going?
In general, if you're planning on staying age 2 you should pretty much only send units shipments. 8 Chu Ko Nu 9 Pike 7 Steppe then send 300 export to get redcoat musketeers or cossacks from the consulate. If you have to send 700w, send it after 9 pike; but in general you should only be sending units otherwise you will fall behind. Once you've exhausted these shipments, you should send 700c and try to age unless you really need more units. In which case, drop a 2nd rax and send 700w/600w or 700f. If you ever manage to start aging or send 700w, build a market and start getting upgrades; you can't normally get them before this and remain relevant in the game.
Once you age up, you should switch to skirm/sword or cavalry armies, but you should still upgrade your bows and pikes if you have a lot of them, as China's veteran upgrades are very cheap.
In age 4, you should pretty much always be ready to transition to Old Han. It's simply too strong to not do.
Keshik's are not good, but you can make them if you really need to; this should be avoided, however.
In general, if you're planning on staying age 2 you should pretty much only send units shipments. 8 Chu Ko Nu 9 Pike 7 Steppe then send 300 export to get redcoat musketeers or cossacks from the consulate. If you have to send 700w, send it after 9 pike; but in general you should only be sending units otherwise you will fall behind. Once you've exhausted these shipments, you should send 700c and try to age unless you really need more units. In which case, drop a 2nd rax and send 700w/600w or 700f. If you ever manage to start aging or send 700w, build a market and start getting upgrades; you can't normally get them before this and remain relevant in the game.
Once you age up, you should switch to skirm/sword or cavalry armies, but you should still upgrade your bows and pikes if you have a lot of them, as China's veteran upgrades are very cheap.
In age 4, you should pretty much always be ready to transition to Old Han. It's simply too strong to not do.
Keshik's are not good, but you can make them if you really need to; this should be avoided, however.
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P i k i l i c - Howdah
- Posts: 1271
- Joined: Nov 17, 2015
- ESO: Pikilic
- Location: Dijon, France
- GameRanger ID: 7497456
Re: China in Team
If for some reason you have a very large army of Old Han when you reach age III you can send "New Army" (200 
) and your old Han Army will turn into Territorial Army, this is fun. In age III TEAM 5 Manchus is also very strong.
) and your old Han Army will turn into Territorial Army, this is fun. In age III TEAM 5 Manchus is also very strong.
Re: China in Team
Mitoe wrote:What build(s) are you going?
In general, if you're planning on staying age 2 you should pretty much only send units shipments. 8 Chu Ko Nu 9 Pike 7 Steppe then send 300 export to get redcoat musketeers or cossacks from the consulate. If you have to send 700w, send it after 9 pike; but in
general you should only be sending units otherwise you will fall behind. Once you've exhausted these shipments, you should send 700c and try to age unless you really need more units. In which case, drop a 2nd rax and send 700w/600w or 700f. If you ever manage to start aging or send 700w, build a market and start getting upgrades; you can't normally get them before this and remain relevant in the game.
Once you age up, you should switch to skirm/sword or cavalry armies, but you should still upgrade your bows and pikes if you have a lot of them, as China's veteran upgrades are very cheap.
In age 4, you should pretty much always be ready to transition to Old Han. It's simply too strong to not do.
Keshik's are not good, but you can make them if you really need to; this should be avoided, however.
I usually send NR + 700 wood + 8 bow/700 coin depending on how age 2 pressure is going. Usually use the 700 wood for market, consulate one or 2 villages and the food upgrade at market. W.e wood I chopped in transition for 1st couple batches
If I was Ff’ing I usually just go NR + 700 coin + 700 wood for same sort of infrastructure.
Re: China in Team
I usually go for an FI, if I reach age 4 its usually hard to lose because old han units are really good.
If I don't make it I oos and blame the other players for it (learned the last one from @Acolyte )
If I don't make it I oos and blame the other players for it (learned the last one from @Acolyte )
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Hazza54321 - Pro Player
- Posts: 8050
- Joined: May 4, 2015
- ESO: PrinceofBabu
Re: China in Team
China are pretty good mid to late game, mid fortess onwards, but they dont have weaknesses such as no goon or musk unit(except cons), which means china arent very mobile
Re: China in Team
Ehhh, Keshiks are underrated. There's two things you have to remember with them, though. First, Keshiks need a meat wall to be effective; if your opponent is meleeing your Keshiks, they won't have the critical mass to beat them because you need to get Qiang with them. They work best when you have Iron Flails in front slowing the opponent down and preventing them from getting too close to the Keshiks. Second, if you use Keshiks, you can skip Mongolian Scourge in the same way you can skip Repelling Volley with Arquebusiers or Chu Ko Nu; i.e, you MUST have Mongolian Scourge.
The other thing is that if your pikes are getting kited by skirms, you need Iron Flails, whether from the Forbidden Army or Imperial Army. Mongolian Scourge actually buffs Iron Flails to the same degree as it does to Keshiks; you get an additional 33% damage vs skirmishers.
About Age 4 in general, most people have this weird idea that once they get OHR they have to spam OHA. That makes you rather monochromatic and sets you up for skirms + cav or artillery. OHR actually does more than just buff OHA, it also buffs Standard Army and Ming Army. I actually have a much better time spamming Standard Army once OHR goes up than OHA, since Standard Army has bonuses vs villagers and tanks skirmisher fire better. Ming Army, likewise, is not a bad idea because fully-upgraded and carded Cuirassiers defeat OHA, even if it takes multiple waves, because OHA-spam is eventually going to leave you pop-maxed and with too many Chu Ko Nu when you need Qiang Pikemen.
The other thing is that if your pikes are getting kited by skirms, you need Iron Flails, whether from the Forbidden Army or Imperial Army. Mongolian Scourge actually buffs Iron Flails to the same degree as it does to Keshiks; you get an additional 33% damage vs skirmishers.
About Age 4 in general, most people have this weird idea that once they get OHR they have to spam OHA. That makes you rather monochromatic and sets you up for skirms + cav or artillery. OHR actually does more than just buff OHA, it also buffs Standard Army and Ming Army. I actually have a much better time spamming Standard Army once OHR goes up than OHA, since Standard Army has bonuses vs villagers and tanks skirmisher fire better. Ming Army, likewise, is not a bad idea because fully-upgraded and carded Cuirassiers defeat OHA, even if it takes multiple waves, because OHA-spam is eventually going to leave you pop-maxed and with too many Chu Ko Nu when you need Qiang Pikemen.
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deleted_user - Ninja
- Posts: 14364
- Joined: Mar 26, 2015
Re: China in Team
TIL OHR is so OP you can make armies other than old han banner and still win.
Pro tip: if your goon unit needs another unit to be an effective goon unit it's a bad goon unit.
Pro tip: if your goon unit needs another unit to be an effective goon unit it's a bad goon unit.
Re: China in Team
SirCallen: you have to build it with pikes to begin with, so...
I'd rather argue it's more that you can't build pure Keshiks. On a stat-line basis, it's 10% inferior with Mongolian Scourge to Zamburaks with desert terror + camel attack, but you have to get pikes to go with them. Once you have to go pikes, Keshiks only make sense as fire support. Funny thing is, though, if you put in Manchu Combat, they actually outstat Zamburaks for cost and beat them for pop since China is a 220 pop civ.
I'd rather argue it's more that you can't build pure Keshiks. On a stat-line basis, it's 10% inferior with Mongolian Scourge to Zamburaks with desert terror + camel attack, but you have to get pikes to go with them. Once you have to go pikes, Keshiks only make sense as fire support. Funny thing is, though, if you put in Manchu Combat, they actually outstat Zamburaks for cost and beat them for pop since China is a 220 pop civ.
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