Shipping 5 fishing boats instead of 4 villagers as Japan

[boks]

They both gather food at the same rate,so why does none ship 5/8 fishing boats on water maps?

[Mitoe]

The main reason is that they're too easily raided by your opponent if they have 2 caravels in their deck or if their civ can age with a caravel.

If you send 5 boats, get 3 from consulate, and maybe even send 5 more boats later (maybe you even sent 3 boats in age 1); your opponent just gets to kill 13-16 vills really easily if they get a warship of any kind, and they WILL know if you've sent fishing boats or not by checking your deck.

However, if your opponent is playing a civ that won't/can't age with a caravel and they don't have warships in their deck (you can delay picking your deck a bit to see theirs, sending Heavenly Kami 5-10 seconds isn't going to make a difference), then you could go for it.

[guyshir]

Another thing which could be added is that market upgrades improves villagers gather rate not for fishing boat. Idk how much better they get, but it might be more efficient on the long run.

[gibson]

The other main reason besides the one mitoe mentioned is that people generally don't get the boat gather rate upgrades. So once you add in 5%+5%+10%+10% 4 vils is better. Although I think 5 boats may have a niche use if a jap player is getting rushed by say Aztec or Iro cause they won't get belled up by a rush.

[Mitoe]

I don't really think that's a valid reason. 5 unupgraded fishing boats still gather faster than 4 fully upgraded villagers.

4v Full Upgrades: 3.216 f/s
5 Fishing Boats: 3.35 f/s

[gibson]

It's marginal, you also lose time due to boats having to move every 500f while jap vils don't. Boats can't gather wood, you can't use boats to defend, once the sea runs out of food you can only gather gold or have to delete them if there's no Whales. Also since your opponent can see that you've sent them its a bit shit, if you do send them you kinda have to get a dock too.

[Mitoe]

The fact that you can afford to send orchards 1 card later a lot of the time makes them worth it as long as your opponent can't punish them with warships, regardless of whether or not they actually gather faster than 4v.

[ListlessSalmon]

I don't really think that's a valid reason. 5 unupgraded fishing boats still gather faster than 4 fully upgraded villagers.

4v Full Upgrades: 3.216 f/s
5 Fishing Boats: 3.35 f/s

0.67*1.3*4=3.484 So 4v full upgrades does give more.

Your Calculation seems to assume full upgrades gives a 1.2 multiplier rather than 1.3 multiplier. (Obviously this is marginal and the important point is raiding/land resource depletion).

[Mitoe]

I don't really think that's a valid reason. 5 unupgraded fishing boats still gather faster than 4 fully upgraded villagers.

4v Full Upgrades: 3.216 f/s
5 Fishing Boats: 3.35 f/s

0.67*1.3*4=3.484 So 4v full upgrades does give more.

Your Calculation seems to assume full upgrades gives a 1.2 multiplier rather than 1.3 multiplier. (Obviously this is marginal and the important point is raiding/land resource depletion).

Ah, you're right, for some reason I only did 1.2

[yemshi]

The same goes with coin: should yopu prepare for turtle just send boats: having 3/6/8 etc... boats gather your coin is crucial. Often times you only have one mine.

[IntrepidExplorer]

Ah, you're right, for some reason I only did 1.2

Isn't it 1.2? Imperial Bureaucracy is 10% and the individual ups are 10%? I always thought those numbers were cumulative - like IB only gave 5% total upgrade more after Civil Servants, and Yokazura Lanterns gave 5% "more" total than Hanami Parties.

[Garja]

boats will make land resources last longer which is a big pro.
Nothing wrong with 5 boats really, especially with strats that involve shipment spam.

[Mitoe]

Ah, you're right, for some reason I only did 1.2

Isn't it 1.2? Imperial Bureaucracy is 10% and the individual ups are 10%? I always thought those numbers were cumulative - like IB only gave 5% total upgrade more after Civil Servants, and Yokazura Lanterns gave 5% "more" total than Hanami Parties.

It's 30% total. 5% from first food up, 5% from Civil Servants, 10% from 2nd food up, and 10% from Imperial Beuracracy.

[Hazza54321]

Cant really fit both in your deck if you wamt warships and warship att and daiymo and orchards in your deck, 4v is just moreversatile

[Garja]

Gotta remove 300 export or 5 ashi/yumi.

[yemshi]

4v, 600w, 600c, 5ashi, 5 yumi, 2 orchards, 2 boats, warship attack, 5 boats, yumi attack, ashi attack, daimyo= 12

[Darwin_]

I ship 5 boats almost always if I shipped 3 boats already. 5 fishing boats gather pretty much the same as 4 vills with full market ups, but obviously don't need the upgrades. Dropping a dock is also quite nice, as it gives you an extra degree of safety, and allows you to get some of the upgrades which help a lot once you go onto whales. Generally I don't like 8 boats as much, mostly because at that point those extra boats will just chew through the remaining sea resources too quickly, and 7 vills is a better shipment if you have market ups.

Normally I don't run the age 2 daimyo so I don't really have to remove anything too important to add 5 boats.