How to beat Japan as Ports????

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Canada JulyBurnsOrange
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How to beat Japan as Ports????

Post by JulyBurnsOrange »

Seriously why is this MU so retarded, like no matter how good i think im playing i just get rekt by industrial japan and an unkillable shogunate.
As you all can tell im a little tilted.
Happy new year tho!
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Re: How to beat Japan as Ports????

Post by deleted_user »

Don't let him get industrial.
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Re: How to beat Japan as Ports????

Post by gibson »

Early fortress timing push.
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Italy Garja
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Re: How to beat Japan as Ports????

Post by Garja »

Dont play the RE patch
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Re: How to beat Japan as Ports????

Post by Hazza54321 »

hard MU on Re, early fort with early mams could be good with halbs and cass, or try to fi yourself and goon heavy cannon but early fort is probably better
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Re: How to beat Japan as Ports????

Post by Rikikipu »

Hopeless mu on re patch
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Canada Mitoe
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Re: How to beat Japan as Ports????

Post by Mitoe »

Hazza54321 wrote:hard MU on Re, early fort with early mams could be good with halbs and cass, or try to fi yourself and goon heavy cannon but early fort is probably better

Aiz 10/10 FF can be decent too depending on the map.
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Re: How to beat Japan as Ports????

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Post by deleted_user »

Just age 2 imo. Make 5-10 pikes to siege shrines then transition into xbow/huss. Save your age 1 shipment and do damage. Hide the huss to trap his yumi ball when he pushes out. something like 700w, 600w, 700c, 8 bow.

I have a working theory Japan wins a very high percentage of their games if they have stabilized after their second orchard shipment (12-13 mins). I try to take advantage of their weak early game.
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Italy Garja
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Re: How to beat Japan as Ports????

Post by Garja »

That would perhaps work with French with stagecoach but Ports are way less efficient early on, don't have ups for bow/huss and they get outscaled.
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Re: How to beat Japan as Ports????

Post by deleted_user »

It probably purely relies on hiding the huss to get a great trade vs yumi.
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Re: How to beat Japan as Ports????

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Post by lordraphael »

deleted_user wrote:It probably purely relies on hiding the huss to get a great trade vs yumi.

a pr 31 could pull it off i feel
breeze wrote: they cant even guess how much f***ing piece of stupid retarded they look they are trying to give lesson to people who are over pr35 and know the best mu. im pretty sure that we need a page that only pr30+ post and then we could have a nice discussins.
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Re: How to beat Japan as Ports????

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Post by momuuu »

A quick FF into a musk/cassa/organ gun composition is actually a strat that Ive found reasonably effective. Somewhat out of the box, tends to have a surprise factor. Probably not that viable but the match up is really hard and the weirdness of the strat (and thus the ability to catch someone off guard) is a big pre then.
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Re: How to beat Japan as Ports????

Post by JulyBurnsOrange »

Jerom wrote:A quick FF into a musk/cassa/organ gun composition is actually a strat that Ive found reasonably effective. Somewhat out of the box, tends to have a surprise factor. Probably not that viable but the match up is really hard and the weirdness of the strat (and thus the ability to catch someone off guard) is a big pre then.


I acttually do like musks with port in a mu like this, havent tried a full on FF tho but i guess if u get organs out quickly enough you could do some damage.
Would you straight FF or invest in some early musk to siege shrines / market ups?
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Re: How to beat Japan as Ports????

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Post by Kaiserklein »

On a stagecoach map, I'd say go 5-10 pikes semi with 700w 600w 700g (or without 600w if there aren't so many tps to take). Try to never lose your pikes, because their siege power is really valuable, and you don't really want to have to train them again later on.
Making pikes means that he will have to choose between saving his shrines and sieging your tps. Or that he will lose a shit ton of shrines, if he doesn't make any units. You might also mix 5 bows if it looks like he's going for only 5 ashis semi (the besteiros won't come in super early).

In age 3, you can ship a unit shipment like 8 cassas or 5 goons first, and go pressure him a little bit if you think he's aging. Secure your stagecoach, try to snipe his ashis, idle him a bit, keep sieging some shrines. But when he ages, he will probably get 6 yumis and ship 10 more, so you probably won't be able to go close to his base unless you have mams (but these guys are really not easy to get, though you can try).
So I'd advise you to ship 1000w or 1000g, and switch your tps to the other resource. It will probably allow you to spam military from 2/3 buildings easily, and/or to ship mams. You will btw need to switch to hand cav at some point, with vet huss if no mams, cause yumis rape skirm goon. So just timing push him again after this 1k res with some surprise hand cav switch, and try and kill his army.


If it's not a stagecoach map, I think it's a lot harder for ports (this mu anyway sucks ass on RE regardless of the map, and I'd say it's still jap favoured on EP if it's not an atp map). You probably need to be more aggressive, with a faster (semi-)ff into age 3 unit shipments. In fortress it's kind of the same as what I described for a stagecoach build, except you have less eco and you're up faster, so you go more aggressive and all-in on unit shipments.

If it's a no tp map, you can probably resign. Or try to cheese him with a double rax rush with no age 1 shipment like 700w 600w 8 bows into 700g cav switch, but it shouldn't work.

deleted_user wrote:Just age 2 imo. Make 5-10 pikes to siege shrines then transition into xbow/huss. Save your age 1 shipment and do damage. Hide the huss to trap his yumi ball when he pushes out. something like 700w, 600w, 700c, 8 bow.

I have a working theory Japan wins a very high percentage of their games if they have stabilized after their second orchard shipment (12-13 mins). I try to take advantage of their weak early game.

But how do you want to push in japan's base if you don't rush hard (you said you start with a few pikes for sieging shrines)? He will have time to mass ashi yumi in base and you probably won't ever be able to push in, he might even age up. And you do need to push, because japan has a way better late colo than ports, and even if you keep sieging shrines on the map it won't be enough.
Sure, you can hope he will push out without enough anti cav and try to trap him with a mass of huss, but that's just relying on japan doing a big mistake, and I don't think that should work.
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Re: How to beat Japan as Ports????

Post by momuuu »

JulyBurnsOrange wrote:
Jerom wrote:A quick FF into a musk/cassa/organ gun composition is actually a strat that Ive found reasonably effective. Somewhat out of the box, tends to have a surprise factor. Probably not that viable but the match up is really hard and the weirdness of the strat (and thus the ability to catch someone off guard) is a big pre then.


I acttually do like musks with port in a mu like this, havent tried a full on FF tho but i guess if u get organs out quickly enough you could do some damage.
Would you straight FF or invest in some early musk to siege shrines / market ups?

Ive been toying around with straight FF, almost as if you're spain. Its fun to play.
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Re: How to beat Japan as Ports????

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Post by tedere12 »

It's hard to win. Your best bet is to do a stagecoach semi ff or naked ff (I always go for naked imo it is better because you get your mass for timing quicker) and cassador organ with few goons, mams for timing
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Re: How to beat Japan as Ports????

Post by JulyBurnsOrange »

Kaiserklein wrote: You will btw need to switch to hand cav at some point, with vet huss if no mams, cause yumis rape skirm goon.



lol this is what kills me every time tbh, i dont have enough hand cav and his yumi mass obliterates everything.
Thanks for the post though, this def helps a lot!

The problem i see with this though, is couldnt the japan guy just camp in base with his yumi mass, even behind walls potentially?
Do you recommend trying to start sieging his stuff, like with organs maybe? Or just try and assume map dominance and cut him off from coin mines early?
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Re: How to beat Japan as Ports????

Post by Kaiserklein »

Well, stagecoach ports will outscale japan that stays in base, so if he stays in base you're happy with it.

If it's a map where taking stagecoach sucks, it's harder for ports anyway. I guess start by sieging every single shrine and make sure you control all the hunts, and you might outboom him hard enough to make up for his units being better. If this doesn't work, try to make organ guns + 2 culvs. Flaming arrows shit on organ guns, but they can't deal with culvs if you micro them decently. And it just so happens that organ guns have an insane dps against infantry, and yumis have pretty low hp so you should probably be fine.
You can also consider going age 4 and getting heavies.
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Re: How to beat Japan as Ports????

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Post by Zutazuta »

deleted_user wrote:I have a working theory Japan wins a very high percentage of their games if they have stabilized after their second orchard shipment (12-13 mins). I try to take advantage of their weak early game.


It’s cute when Callen figures out something most of the world did 9 years ago.
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Re: How to beat Japan as Ports????

Post by deleted_user »

Zutazuta wrote:
deleted_user wrote:I have a working theory Japan wins a very high percentage of their games if they have stabilized after their second orchard shipment (12-13 mins). I try to take advantage of their weak early game.


It’s cute when Callen figures out something most of the world did 9 years ago.

Well half of these responses apply no pressure!

PS: I'm PR 31 now, so, certified strategist
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Re: How to beat Japan as Ports????

Post by Kazamkikaz »

deleted_user wrote:Just age 2 imo. Make 5-10 pikes to siege shrines then transition into xbow/huss. Save your age 1 shipment and do damage. Hide the huss to trap his yumi ball when he pushes out. something like 700w, 600w, 700c, 8 bow.

I have a working theory Japan wins a very high percentage of their games if they have stabilized after their second orchard shipment (12-13 mins). I try to take advantage of their weak early game.

:P :lol: :roll: :biggrin: you didnt even watch any of his youtube videos to see how he plays, he is noob, so start pikes is the worst advice to give a noob, you guys pro always start pikes in 1 rax with alot civs: "ah start 5-10 pikes to siege shrines", but you don't see while 5 pikes is sieging 1 shrine, japan monjes is building another 3-5 more shrines at same time and you just give japan time to start and mass yumi until no colonial husardss can deal with it anymore .
IMO start hard xbow rush(crossbowman first) (age with 10/10 and make 1 rax or age with 13 vill and make 2 rax, start 10 musk or cross while make tp and 1 home in transition to age 2 with 300w card) or a FF (age with 400w for eariler rax or 500f) get cassador very soon in his base, 2 organs guns deal with his infantry if you have good infantry mass, make some dragoons in case of naginata or hussards/mamelukos in case of yumi mass could be some of your options.
SirCallen if you saw his last game versus japan, was a noob mu, he was always outpop and with alot resources to spend all time, he was with Russia and Japan guy was with 5 ashigarus in like 5min.20sec this means he send 5 ashigarus first, probably made 3 or less shrines in transition since 5 ashigarus was fighting with his 2 monjes versus russia explorer and not making shrines in begin of the colonial age (again both noobs).
Try imagine noob match up please and start give good advices, you always cut my posts here with "sounds really bad" :devil: :o :sad: :hmm: , but i always speak "dont take my tips seriously, is noob tips and only works versus noob and troll game")
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Re: How to beat Japan as Ports????

Post by KINGofOsmane »

hows starting pike bad lol
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Re: How to beat Japan as Ports????

Post by macacoalbino »

Learn a bunch of different cheese strats
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