Countering Musketeer spam as China?

United States of America AsianGod
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Countering Musketeer spam as China?

Post by AsianGod »

Hi does anyone know a way to counter early musketeer spam because even when I send my cards such as CKN and Arquebushier they just get destroyed by the utter amount of muskets including the qiang pikemen that come with the han army which are pretty much useless.
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Re: Countering Musketeer spam as China?

Post by duckzilla »

Use hit&run with your ckn/arq's. If the opponent does musk only, either put your qiang pikemen into cover mode (they will get only half dmg this way!) or do groups of ~10 and send them around the map to harass villagers/town center.
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Re: Countering Musketeer spam as China?

Post by Kaiserklein »

You can get a TP in age 1 and ship 8 chu ko nus after 700g, that way you can hold the musk mass before it gets out of control. Just hit and run and you should be fine, if the guy makes no cav it should really not be a problem to hold. If you're really afraid of the musk mass you can even age up with the 8 skirms wonder. Don't forget to make disciples and use your hero in cover mode to cover your skirms, and you can call mm if you need to. Then ship stuff like intervention/10 skirms/5 meteor hammer and win
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Re: Countering Musketeer spam as China?

Post by P i k i l i c »

Two words: Iron Troops
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Re: Countering Musketeer spam as China?

Post by _NT_sven »

Kaiserklein wrote:You can get a TP in age 1 and ship 8 chu ko nus after 700g, that way you can hold the musk mass before it gets out of control. Just hit and run and you should be fine, if the guy makes no cav it should really not be a problem to hold. If you're really afraid of the musk mass you can even age up with the 8 skirms wonder. Don't forget to make disciples and use your hero in cover mode to cover your skirms, and you can call mm if you need to. Then ship stuff like intervention/10 skirms/5 meteor hammer and win


How to counter a musk start with decent eco, like french 1rax start? They could keep like 10 musk all the time and that's pretty annoying. Sending 8 ckn after 700c doesn't seem worth it, or does it? But otherwise it's no good if vills get idle for a long time.

I mean those maps where no natural barrier exists, or bad rec sites etc, since then it's hard to hide vills from gunfire well.
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Re: Countering Musketeer spam as China?

Post by tedere12 »

vs double rax 8 chukonus. Vs 1 rax I dont think u need 8 chukonus, just naked ff and minutemen disciples
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Re: Countering Musketeer spam as China?

Post by Kaiserklein »

_NT_sven wrote:How to counter a musk start with decent eco, like french 1rax start? They could keep like 10 musk all the time and that's pretty annoying. Sending 8 ckn after 700c doesn't seem worth it, or does it? But otherwise it's no good if vills get idle for a long time.

Depends what you mean by musk start, is it a musk semi? Or slow colo play? I honestly don't remember seeing france starting only 1 rax vs china, usually either they go double rax musks rush (which is bad) or it's a stable start

_NT_sven wrote:I mean those maps where no natural barrier exists, or bad rec sites etc, since then it's hard to hide vills from gunfire well.

Well if the map has no resources at all it's probably auto lose for china, but they might as well try colo play (or at least semi ff) and not ff
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Re: Countering Musketeer spam as China?

Post by Garja »

Defending a musk rush should be your bread and butter with any FF. Just use TC and unit shipments/from age up timed well. Then in fortress you have plenty of good cards vs anything, musks included.
Pure musk rush can also be heavy punished by just old han colonial.
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Re: Countering Musketeer spam as China?

Post by AsianGod »

Ok thanks for the advice everyone!
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Re: Countering Musketeer spam as China?

Post by _NT_sven »

Kaiserklein wrote:
_NT_sven wrote:How to counter a musk start with decent eco, like french 1rax start? They could keep like 10 musk all the time and that's pretty annoying. Sending 8 ckn after 700c doesn't seem worth it, or does it? But otherwise it's no good if vills get idle for a long time.

Depends what you mean by musk start, is it a musk semi? Or slow colo play? I honestly don't remember seeing france starting only 1 rax vs china, usually either they go double rax musks rush (which is bad) or it's a stable start

_NT_sven wrote:I mean those maps where no natural barrier exists, or bad rec sites etc, since then it's hard to hide vills from gunfire well.

Well if the map has no resources at all it's probably auto lose for china, but they might as well try colo play (or at least semi ff) and not ff


Like a single rax musk semi 4 cdb - 700 w (or skip) - 700c.
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Re: Countering Musketeer spam as China?

Post by Kaiserklein »

_NT_sven wrote:
Kaiserklein wrote:
_NT_sven wrote:How to counter a musk start with decent eco, like french 1rax start? They could keep like 10 musk all the time and that's pretty annoying. Sending 8 ckn after 700c doesn't seem worth it, or does it? But otherwise it's no good if vills get idle for a long time.

Depends what you mean by musk start, is it a musk semi? Or slow colo play? I honestly don't remember seeing france starting only 1 rax vs china, usually either they go double rax musks rush (which is bad) or it's a stable start

_NT_sven wrote:I mean those maps where no natural barrier exists, or bad rec sites etc, since then it's hard to hide vills from gunfire well.

Well if the map has no resources at all it's probably auto lose for china, but they might as well try colo play (or at least semi ff) and not ff


Like a single rax musk semi 4 cdb - 700 w (or skip) - 700c.

I think that's really not hard to hold as china, it really shouldn't be a problem in colo. Then in fort its just normal china vs fr stuff
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Re: Countering Musketeer spam as China?

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Post by Zutazuta »

If it’s patented Victor_swe 3rax rush there is no hope
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Re: Countering Musketeer spam as China?

Post by Kazamkikaz »

it is really hard deal with almost 30 musk in your base in 7min of the game with 2 rax british rush and can send 700w 600w and make some lb so just 8 CkN not enough if u start lose alot village
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Re: Countering Musketeer spam as China?

Post by macacoalbino »

@_NT_sven tc fire is enough vs single rax
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Re: Countering Musketeer spam as China?

Post by dave_12 »

Kaiserklein wrote:
_NT_sven wrote:
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Like a single rax musk semi 4 cdb - 700 w (or skip) - 700c.

I think that's really not hard to hold as china, it really shouldn't be a problem in colo. Then in fort its just normal china vs fr stuff

Am I supposed to do a cav semi as france ?
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Re: Countering Musketeer spam as China?

Post by ssaraf »

As france On high tp maps -----> i will either 0 huss or 10 huss semi , not 5 huss. U need to take as many tps as possible. The 700w 4v 700c (total 1100w = extra tps + stagecoach + stable + house + rax in that order ). If you wanna cav semi , then do 10 huss and make sure u kill first chuko-pike batch from the summer palace and the explorer , disciple , MM if any are called and Idle as much as possible. The idea behind doing a 10 huss semi is that u are targeting those skirms which pop out as soon as china ages up [Confusion Academy]. If he goes eco with Porcelain tower , just idle him as much as u can while killing above mentioned things (Explorer gets up on age up , So sweet 90xp again :D ) This is what i ll do for cav semi. In my opinion the 5 huss semi does nothing if he calls MM one time and use explorer properly.

As france On no tp maps -----> I will play colonial , 2 rax musk start , then huss later (700w 4v 700c). Like a modified samwise build :)
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Re: Countering Musketeer spam as China?

Post by sirmusket »

ssaraf wrote:As france On high tp maps -----> i will either 0 huss or 10 huss semi , not 5 huss. U need to take as many tps as possible. The 700w 4v 700c (total 1100w = extra tps + stagecoach + stable + house + rax in that order ). If you wanna cav semi , then do 10 huss and make sure u kill first chuko-pike batch from the summer palace and the explorer , disciple , MM if any are called and Idle as much as possible. The idea behind doing a 10 huss semi is that u are targeting those skirms which pop out as soon as china ages up [Confusion Academy]. If he goes eco with Porcelain tower , just idle him as much as u can while killing above mentioned things (Explorer gets up on age up , So sweet 90xp again :D ) This is what i ll do for cav semi. In my opinion the 5 huss semi does nothing if he calls MM one time and use explorer properly.

As france On no tp maps -----> I will play colonial , 2 rax musk start , then huss later (700w 4v 700c). Like a modified samwise build :)

On High TP Map China gets atleast 1 TP, so even if you go for 10 huss semi, and he ages with 8 skrim he can easily hold with hero/sentries/3pike. China can even ship 300e and get extra batch of musk as you hit 3. And do intervention first. At that point your probably not aging yet even since you went 10 huss 3-4 tp's and stagecoach. Also if your going to wait till he ages to 3 and go in with 10 huss, it means you have left china with 0 idle time all game. Which just sucks, and by the time he ages and you come in with your monster 10 huss mass, he will have enough anti cav/tc fire to just be totally fine. If China does go for porcelain tower he will just ship 9 pike, then you can't really idle him at all.
"10 huss and make sure u kill first chuko-pike batch from the summer palace and the explorer , disciple , MM if any are called and Idle as much as possible."
But 3pike/ckn in back/4 sentries/hero /disciples reck 10 huss cost effectively. You will prob lose 5 and rest won't even be full hp. TC Fire will just do the rest, and your not gonna idle him from there.
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Re: Countering Musketeer spam as China?

Post by Kaiserklein »

dave_12 wrote:Am I supposed to do a cav semi as france ?

Yes that's the standard way to play it
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Re: Countering Musketeer spam as China?

Post by fei123456 »

1 rax musk deals no damage to china. Just ff and win.
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Re: Countering Musketeer spam as China?

Post by PeachTree »

if you are able to defend 3-4 flamethrowers they chew through muskets pretty fast. You gotta outrange them though (i think they are like 20% better range)
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Re: Countering Musketeer spam as China?

Post by jgals »

P i k i l i c wrote:Two words: Iron Troops

I love them to deth, but I think this guy is talking more about colonial problems with mustkets. Even if you could get to fortress and sendthat it might be too little too late.

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