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I think full colonial can word as japan also i think

This is an unwinnable match-up.

Btw yumi nerf is just 15% hp, range is the same. Disciplined yumi still rek skirms and they kinda do that even without sending the yumi card just because of the damage disparity.
Basically at any point French are not leading the game they probably lost.

britrouga wrote:I have no word to tell how big the Shogunate nerf is :O

Yeah, it is, because it is a bug fix. Getting 8 cannons as an age up bonus is not how it should be really.

Very good analysis, same thoughts.

8 arrow and a daiymo upon age up and res inbase and pathing was retarded, nerfed rightfully so

Hazza54321 wrote:I think full colonial can word as japan also i think

Yes it can but it's a bit random imo.
I don't think you can be really agressive because France can just hold the colonial ashi/nagi with skirm/goon and cdb, and later in the game (unless you manage to age at 10min or so), you just won't be able to deal with the falcs.
I know that on the RE it wouldn't work but since goons got nerfed vs musk/huss it could probably work.

Garja wrote:Btw yumi nerf is just 15% hp, range is the same. Disciplined yumi still rek skirms and they kinda do that even without sending the yumi card just because of the damage disparity.
Basically at any point French are not leading the game they probably lost.

Ah just he 15% HP? Yea then it's not that big and Jap wins the fortress war.

yurashic wrote:

britrouga wrote:I have no word to tell how big the Shogunate nerf is :O

Yeah, it is, because it is a bug fix. Getting 8 cannons as an age up bonus is not how it should be really.

Very good analysis, same thoughts.

This debate again lol.
Frankly, considering how much it changes the balance, I don't think we can call that a "simple bug fix", it is a bug fix of course, but it's also a huge nerf.

I'm not saying that the nerf is unfair or anything, and the age 4 was indeed very op because you'd get 8 arrows+shogunate for free but it really changes the way Japan should be played.

In my opinion, I would say any of these 2 civs can win on this map, since taking the full tp line is not that viable on this map it means that this MU would play out as usual, where france would be the aggressor and forced to take the initiative while Japan would try to boom, defend and adapt to what the French player does.

I still think japan wins this match up. Ashi club rush is so good against fre. and fi works aswell id say. and colonial too lol. i dont think its fre favored really

How is ashi club rush gonna beat france? It's one of the civs that can handle rushes the most easily. Musk semi, use cdbs if needed, ez pz when you're age 3.
FI is heavily nerfed on ep, since you get -1000xp. Most likely not viable.
Colonial ashi nagi might win, but probably loses if the fr guys got a decent micro. Works better vs a civ without musks, like ger.

sebnan12 wrote:I still think japan wind this match up. Ashi club rush is so good against fre. and fi works aswell id say. and colonial too lol. i dont think its fre favored really

Ashi club can work nicely on qs mapscrew standards but certainly not on ep maps.

Dont even think it works on re

Googol wrote:

sebnan12 wrote:I still think japan wind this match up. Ashi club rush is so good against fre. and fi works aswell id say. and colonial too lol. i dont think its fre favored really

Ashi club can work nicely on qs mapscrew standards but certainly not on ep maps.

im sorry mate but im disagreeing. especially when u see forward rax and moste likely bow pike rush, id say club ashi flat out wins.

sebnan12 wrote:

Googol wrote:

sebnan12 wrote:I still think japan wind this match up. Ashi club rush is so good against fre. and fi works aswell id say. and colonial too lol. i dont think its fre favored really

Ashi club can work nicely on qs mapscrew standards but certainly not on ep maps.

im sorry mate but im disagreeing. especially when u see forward rax and moste likely bow pike rush, id say club ashi flat out wins.

You mean bow pike against japs on ep ?

as good as ashi are they do not beat their counter

Even on no hunt maps, I don't think ashi/club can be any decent vs France, and let it alone on kamchatka.
Musk semi rapes it so hard because 15musks+cdb+mm will hold every push jap can do, and well in age 3 you can probably just vet musk/2falcs and win from here.

FI should not work against a good player, especially on the EP where the age 4 got nerfed super hard. You're going to lose all your shrines, probably the toshogu to the 2 falcs push, and then the fre guy can transi into his late colonial composition with 1k wood/1k gold in order to get a few culvs, and you're going to get both outboomed and outmassed.

Colonial can probably work but as I said in one of my previous posts, it doesn't if you're scouted and the fre adapts. You're simply not going to break the 10/15musks+cdb+mm early, and then you'll have to face skirm/goon and eventually falcs, and there's really nothing you can do vs falcs in age 2.

sebnan12 wrote:

Googol wrote:

sebnan12 wrote:I still think japan wind this match up. Ashi club rush is so good against fre. and fi works aswell id say. and colonial too lol. i dont think its fre favored really

Ashi club can work nicely on qs mapscrew standards but certainly not on ep maps.

im sorry mate but im disagreeing. especially when u see forward rax and moste likely bow pike rush, id say club ashi flat out wins.

You don't even need club.., full ashi beats xbow pike rofl.

You described exactly how I play the France side of this matchup diarouga.

There are two YouTube games I played that are quite relevent here. One of me vs diarouga which was a long game on Siberia and one of me vs kingofosmane on Kamchatka in a smack down.

The diarouga one (wow already two years ago) https://youtu.be/45M109KyNn0

_H2O wrote:You described exactly how I play the France side of this matchup diarouga.

There are two YouTube games I played that are quite relevent here. One of me vs diarouga which was a long game on Siberia and one of me vs kingofosmane on Kamchatka in a smack down.

The diarouga one (wow already two years ago) https://youtu.be/45M109KyNn0

Do you have the youtube vid of your match vs osmane? (or any other fre v port)
Thanks

gryphoon94 wrote:

_H2O wrote:You described exactly how I play the France side of this matchup diarouga.

There are two YouTube games I played that are quite relevent here. One of me vs diarouga which was a long game on Siberia and one of me vs kingofosmane on Kamchatka in a smack down.

The diarouga one (wow already two years ago) https://youtu.be/45M109KyNn0

Do you have the youtube vid of your match vs osmane? (or any other fre v port)
Thanks

It's the saturday smackdown _H2O vs kingofosmane