TAD guide 3.0

[edeholland]

How is this thread about Sioux now, of all civs?

Couldnt you all make an effort to keep its dignity intact

Lets talk about otto!
Btw, I dont understand why you consider otto as a civ and not sioux...

Otto got double the options :p

[Goodspeed]

How is this thread about Sioux now, of all civs?

Couldnt you all make an effort to keep its dignity intact

Lets talk about otto!
Btw, I dont understand why you consider otto as a civ and not sioux...

Because Otto is a civ and Sioux isnt.. Doh!
Jokes aside, its because Sioux lacks any sort of skill cap. Their builds are straightforward, options very limited, and their unit compositions require negligible micro. Otto has some very lame builds but they are counterable. Consistently winning with Otto against players who know how to counter them is actually not all that straightforward.

[princeofkabul]

Lol at that siox Japan game. You never should take that as an example. Basically i woulda won it by finishin my walls. Or just stay age 2.

[fei123456]

Lets talk about otto!
Btw, I dont understand why you consider otto as a civ and not sioux...

Because Otto is a civ and Sioux isnt.. Doh!
Jokes aside, its because Sioux lacks any sort of skill cap. Their builds are straightforward, options very limited, and their unit compositions require negligible micro. Otto has some very lame builds but they are counterable. Consistently winning with Otto against players who know how to counter them is actually not all that straightforward.

sioux does have multiple BOs. not that "limited". they can have an age 2 infantry rush, a straight ff(or even a 6:30 ff) or something else. besides, sioux is a good counter to ottoman. and iro can not beat sioux easily. (india sucks)

[deleted_user0]

Otto is fine vs sioux. So is iro with 8 min timing or rush vs slow age up. And india is fine too on water or wallable maps.

Sioux is broken buf not that op when it comes to mus. Its op because you cant fight sioux outside ur base, but many civs can simply chose not to fight sioux. Euro mill plant army with factories beat sioux. And tad eco is also better. And vs the twc civs sioux struggles.

[[Armag] diarouga]

France rape sioux.

[fei123456]

Otto is fine vs sioux. So is iro with 8 min timing or rush vs slow age up. And india is fine too on water or wallable maps.

Sioux is broken buf not that op when it comes to mus. Its op because you cant fight sioux outside ur base, but many civs can simply chose not to fight sioux. Euro mill plant army with factories beat sioux. And tad eco is also better. And vs the twc civs sioux struggles.

still i think sioux has some advantage to otto. sioux has better eco in later age 2 and abus are a waste of gold against br. just maaaaaass br with 700g and send cav hp cav attack.
iro can beat sioux with a 8-9 min timing, but not as easy as they did in other MUs.
mill plant wall cost lots of wood and sioux has siege dance and wakinas. so it wont be that easy. sioux semiff with a big button dog soldier timing is terrific.

[zoom]

Lol at that siox Japan game. You never should take that as an example. Basically i woulda won it by finishin my walls. Or just stay age 2.

Thank you!

[deleted_user0]

Otto is fine vs sioux. So is iro with 8 min timing or rush vs slow age up. And india is fine too on water or wallable maps.

Sioux is broken buf not that op when it comes to mus. Its op because you cant fight sioux outside ur base, but many civs can simply chose not to fight sioux. Euro mill plant army with factories beat sioux. And tad eco is also better. And vs the twc civs sioux struggles.

still i think sioux has some advantage to otto. sioux has better eco in later age 2 and abus are a waste of gold against br. just maaaaaass br with 700g and send cav hp cav attack.
iro can beat sioux with a 8-9 min timing, but not as easy as they did in other MUs.
mill plant wall cost lots of wood and sioux has siege dance and wakinas. so it wont be that easy. sioux semiff with a big button dog soldier timing is terrific.

Actually iro can do travois dance to spam mills and plantations its better. Also double or triplewall with fp that have 22 range 3 unit ups and attack dance is something sioux cant beat. Also iro eco is miles ahead of sioux. The timing doesnt have to kill them, just trade army and then contain. The range up is really op btw cuz wakina have only 18 range and aenna with the up will have the same but double hp and attack. Also tomas rape cav and will have alot of hp, vs age3 semi ff timing iro can just age2 with all ups and wardance. At that time theh will easily have 50 aenna and tomahawk

[zoom]

"If the travois dance is used opposed to chopping wood, it is cheaper to generate most buildings than actually chopping wood depending on the wood gathering rate. Never use a travois on a longhouse, market, or fire pit in order to save wood. Building a dock or corral will only save wood if forest people ceremony (+40%) has not been researched and 25 dancers. A War Hut is only profitable if forest spirit ceremony (+60%) has not been researched and 16 dancers or more. A farm or plantation is always cheaper to spawn at fire pit opposed to building even researched deforestation."

[span] [/span][span] [/span][span] [/span]?? Cyclohexane's TAD Quick-reference Guide

[Janer]

This is a fantastic guide! It must have taken you ages and ages to write... thanks a lot!

[Marco1698]

H2O jap guide aint, its still relevant. Dunno about the others.

The bank build and the rush arent viable Imo.

I just read this only now, bank is not available right but I watched blackstar rushing crampers Spain yesterday. Thats a series from summer tournament so it is recently, no?

[[Armag] diarouga]

The bank build and the rush arent viable Imo.

I just read this only now, bank is not available right but I watched blackstar rushing crampers Spain yesterday. Thats a series from summer tournament so it is recently, no?

bsops build can work but it isnt ryans build

[Marco1698]

I just read this only now, bank is not available right but I watched blackstar rushing crampers Spain yesterday. Thats a series from summer tournament so it is recently, no?

bsops build can work but it isnt ryans build

so vs Spain as jap you do the bs op rush?

[[Armag] diarouga]

bsops build can work but it isnt ryans build

so vs Spain as jap you do the bs op rush?

From my experience, it doesnt work, not even vs a captain/major but bsop says it works.

[Marco1698]

so vs Spain as jap you do the bs op rush?

From my experience, it doesnt work, not even vs a captain/major but bsop says it works.

cramper is colonell but he was colo-lt during those games if im not wrong

[Hagi]

Well, H2O is Daimyo rush and BSOP is forward Consulate + Raks rush. Also, Bsop said in his condensed japan guide that he likes to do this BO against Spain because it works.
So, 2 differents rush, and the second one appears to work only against Spain.

[momuuu]

Well, H2O is Daimyo rush and BSOP is forward Consulate + Raks rush. Also, Bsop said in his condensed japan guide that he likes to do this BO against Spain because it works.
So, 2 differents rush, and the second one appears to work only against Spain.

where can I find bsop''s guide?

[Hagi]

Quote from BlackStar_OP :

"Hey, since I got some free time, I decided to let you know about my build and opinions regarding japan. Let??s start with the builds, the most standard build is using the shrine card as first and trying to reach max shrines as soon as possible.
300wood: I??m not really a fan of this strategy but let??s see, you can basically do 2 things with 300w.
One is doing a forward consulate and rax and rush with ashi and clubs wich I prefer to do against a spain ff since they lose tc before they get up an its quite nice one tip here (put clubs in cover mode when they get attacked by tc or tower cause they live longer).
The second thing with 300w would be to invest it into 2 tps, I tested the build myself it requires pretty good macro to get the tps up and age pretty good time and then again with 2 tps you can send 2nd card as the cheap shrine one and do same shrine boom behind it, if you macro correctly you will be basically at same point with shrine card only the 2 extra tps and more xp incoming. Basically tp costs 170w each cause u got port ally . Regarding iro vs japan mu, the 300w start can be an option and send 5 ashi make 5 and get clubs to hold the 4 kanya the only thing about this build is to get aged very fast (skip 1 vill if you??re at like 640food) if u get good food treasures it helps a lot ,after u manage to hold the 4 cav and few toma iro will probably go back and mass more and at this point u will use your 10 ashi to raid his vills (mobility of ashi insane 4.5speed) no iro unit can catch them. Regarding dock card 1st: this strat I used ,developed in other ways (this strat belongs to kynesie) it??s about going full sea with walls, ok for this you need to know how to make perfect walls and wall by wall so a potential rush won??t reach your tc, also you need to make use of your 2 funes and the range card if enemy reach your eco you gotta run with the funes and rebuild near sea (if the opponent does this all in rush its most likely they lose cause less eco and u water boom behind), so this tactic is sort of walling till u get 50,60 vills eco and then go age 4 and make use of your gold from sea (make monastery and mercs) regarding wonder kynesie generally used the spie wonder for age 4 cause gives LOS of of enemy so u can monitor his buildings better but i prefer the shogunate if u got enough place in ur base to build it (up to how u wall) it gives basically 2,3 extra cards wich is uesfull for 14 ashi 4 flame arrow shogun shipments,ps: u can also do yumi behind those walls not really need a no unit FI depends how other plays it.Ok now about sending 3 fish boat as first card i prefer to send 3 boats on maps like araucania since u basically cant shrine anything expent like 80 pop of shrines wich is too less(might get sieged fast etc) so just have 3,5 boats in ur deck on this map.If map spamms with llamas u go standard shrine card depending on how many u get.How i play japan is like this: shrine card 600w 4/4 vills if a standard no rush stuff if i get rushed i usually send 5 yumi or 600c after 1 time 4 vills depending on others units.Usually japan is a strong colo civ but i like to play it age3 wise aswell vs some civs like france .german cause u can go the nagi ashi/ashi flame arrow combo wich are insane against most civs.I hope it helped u,if u got any other questions u can find me in eso BlackStar_OP can pm me when im online. A nice day!"

[[Armag] diarouga]

From my experience, it doesnt work, not even vs a captain/major but bsop says it works.

cramper is colonell but he was colo-lt during those games if im not wrong

Yeah and he fked up super hard, age up 17, late age3 etc. Vs a 15v ff it would have been different imo.

[Marco1698]

cramper is colonell but he was colo-lt during those games if im not wrong?

Yeah and he fked up super hard, age up 17, late age3 etc. Vs a 15v ff it would have been different imo.

yes, that rush looked to me easily to counter

[Marco1698]

By the way goodspeed, much time ago a Jeffrey47 told me you copied him in part of the guide, so it is good to read that guide too?

[[Armag] diarouga]

By the way goodspeed, much time ago a Jeffrey47 told me you copied him in part of the guide, so it is good to read that guide too?

Lol, no. Jeffrey copied the GS guide but anyway both guides are outdated, I think 50% of the BOs aren''t good anymore.

[Marco1698]

By the way goodspeed, much time ago a Jeffrey47 told me you copied him in part of the guide, so it is good to read that guide too?

Lol, no. Jeffrey copied the GS guide but anyway both guides are outdated, I think 50% of the BOs arent good anymore.

ok

[tedere12]

Lol I dont think Jeffrey47 would say such a thing. He admitted that he copied parts of GS's and Mokon's guide to make his own guide.