Japan in team games

[Bartimaeus]

I dont know if there already is a tread for this topic. If so, my bad, I didnt find it! /:

I alway feel, that my teammates don´t like, me playing this "slow" civ. How do I speed up (what to cancel in case of a rush)?
With what Civs does Japan combines good?
What Matchups should I avoid? I mainly play 2v2.

[KINGofOsmane]

avoid russ,azzy,otto,iro
prob need a civ which is good doing cav

[Bartimaeus]

So basically rushing civs.

[Radix_Lecti]

build 3 layers of walls and then win

[KINGofOsmane]

while ur mate dies 10/10

[Hazza54321]

Need a good goon cav mate as jap dont have a goon unit, other than that, jap can 1v2 later so you could be fine sacrificing your mate

[princeofkabul]

I'd happily sacrifice myself for hazza54321 in any circumstance.

[[Armag] diarouga]

Well, in 2v2 it's always hard because Japan is really slow, and you'll often let your mate 1v2 in early game. That's fair though, because when you reach the middle/late game, your insane eco/units will carry the game.

Anyway, in 2v2, against early agressions you should age fast (like put 2-3 vills on the toshogu shrines), and build your rax right when you age instead of waiting the 600w. With this, you can a decent ashigaru count (you'll train them 5 by 5), backed with the besteros when you have 400 exports.
Also, try to avoid the 600/4/4, because 4v isn't really a great shipment even to boom anyway. You can send 4v once in 2v2 against eco play, but 600w (for more shrines/market/extra rax etc), 600c (for unit spam), or unit shipments (don't forget that the daymio is better than unit shipments by the way) will be needed to defend.

[macacoalbino]

Hey, I know this is not the main subject of the topic, but the last post made me wonder...
I’d like to know how japan holds rushes (say xbow pike or musketeer type unit rush with cav switch timing later)in 1v1 and not fall behind economically (assuming you dont lose villagers but get shrines sieged down). When I play va this style I usually either hold the early aggression but at the cost of too much economy or make too few units and lack map control to gather anything. Basically ehats a good middle ground BO? Something like rouga said about the 2v2?

[[Armag] diarouga]

Hey, I know this is not the main subject of the topic, but the last post made me wonder...
I’d like to know how japan holds rushes (say xbow pike or musketeer type unit rush with cav switch timing later)in 1v1 and not fall behind economically (assuming you dont lose villagers but get shrines sieged down). When I play va this style I usually either hold the early aggression but at the cost of too much economy or make too few units and lack map control to gather anything. Basically ehats a good middle ground BO? Something like rouga said about the 2v2?

Well, there are two ways I'd say.
1) The standard way. Basically, you want to make just enough units to hold, while booming as much as possible and win thanks to a superior eco and better units.
That's what people used to do a few years ago, as it is the most natural way to play. In this case you want to play like H2O plays. So try to get many food treasures in age 1 so you can age faster, build a rax right when you age, make yumis, and try to hold with a few yumis using your defensor advantage.
Since yumis can hit and run you want to poke his bows, and make him push behind your TC because he has to commit if he wants to take a fight, and then trap him with a mm pop and vills in hand combat.
It works quite well, at least against bow rushes, because with a good micro/macro/game sense you'll hold with more eco and win from there, but against iro/Russia it can be really tough, and you probably can't hold if your opponent plays well.
PS: Don't ship 4v at all against a fb play, 600w if you have some time for shrines+yumis+market will be better, or daymio for units (+you can use him as a stable).

2) The modern way. Mostly developed by Buakaw and kynesie, who're both known to have a poor micro. The idea is that you want to defend without units. Thus, you should wall your base before the units come because yumis+walls can just hold anything (that is only if you face a bow rush though, because against an eco opening it will put you behind), and use CM if he gets to your base because it kills both pikes and bows in one hit.
With this, you should hold anything, however the risk is that you won't be able to protect your shrines, and a smart opponent will start making pikes to kill your shrines (= your eco).
Still, this is very effective against Russia, and if you can wall, against Aztecs and Iro.

Anyway, I'd say that eco is overrated. Actually, with just the same eco you should win because your units are simply better than any other civ but India/Russia, so don't send 4v unless you're sure your opponent is going for an eco semi ff, and building the rax right when you age, or putting 4vills on the wonder won't be a big deal most of the time, but it can make you win a game.

[Hazza54321]

probably just crate spam, 600w 600w 600g 600g, maybe 4 v inbetween somewhere

[Hazza54321]

I'd happily sacrifice myself for hazza54321 in any circumstance.

for the greater good