Civ Strengths change in 1v1 or team?

[Warno]

I kept reading in chat during the 2v2 tourney that some civs were 'good team civs'. Also, I remember hearing that French was a awkward team civ for some reason, but obviously it is a good 1v1 civ.

What civs do you guys think are better in team than in 1v1 and why?
What makes a civ a better or worse team civ?

[Darwin_]

The best civs in team are either civs that are incredibly versatile (brit/france), or have a few exploitable strengths.

[Mitoe]

Some civs that are not so great in 1v1 can sometimes shine a bit more in team games because other civs can cover their weaknesses.

Russia for example, in both 1v1 and team, provide a lot of map pressure early on. The problem in 1v1 is that they have a hard time dealing with Fortress units and fighting in Fortress themselves and abusing their great unit upgrades. In team games they can more or less afford to spam their best unit (strelets) with no downsides, because other civs can cover for the cav weakness and when you age you only need to upgrade 1 unit and send your insane Strelet upgrades (Boyars 15% hp/attack and Strelet Combat 20% hp/attack). Plus, they have a great lategame that they can abuse in team, and almost never get to abuse in 1v1.

Or Japan, typically not so great in 1v1 because they can get shut down pretty early, can often survive the early game if they're coupled with a strong early game civ.

[Hazza54321]

Dutch and indias weaknesses get covered up completely too with a decent civ mate, india has poor cav, dutch has poor anti cav(until age 3), russia also a good example for this too. French isn’t necessarily awkward they are just very slow in the midgame to compete with strong eco civs (dutch india brit jap and port) .

[deleted_user0]

how ish fre weak or slow. you can get into imperial at 18m matey

[gamevideo113]

As far as i can tell the best 1v1 civs are the most well rounded ones or civs with "abusable mechanics", while the best team civs are those with high booming potential.

[jgals]

how ish fre weak or slow. you can get into imperial at 18m matey

I agree, good french players in team games are good to have. They often get to imperial by 20 min if no major fighting happens. If they can keep their cav alive they can reinvest most of their res. into eco and boom fast. On the other hand you get a lot of bad french players in team who suicide their cav the whole game and can't grow as a result of constantly needing to replace.

[deleted_user]

FR just don't have any boom options outside of cdb so they're more reliant upon the quick 3 tc than other top civs while needing to rely on 1kw to do it (unlike Brit who have 50 vills by then or India wth their trickles or Dutch who don't need to TC or Port who get them for free). So actually France needs quite a bit of map control in early age 3 to do this and if it doesn't France tends to economically not keep up which is important because their best unit is quite expensive. But a good 3 tc France, if allowed to get away with it, is a great civ with great units.

[edeholland]

how ish fre weak or slow. you can get into imperial at 18m matey

I agree, good french players in team games are good to have. They often get to imperial by 20 min if no major fighting happens. If they can keep their cav alive they can reinvest most of their res. into eco and boom fast. On the other hand you get a lot of bad french players in team who suicide their cav the whole game and can't grow as a result of constantly needing to replace.

How can they reinvest their resources into eco? I would say civs like Ports/Brits/India/Japan/Dutch can invest their resources into eco, but France can't. Like said before, they can just make more Town Centers (and get trade posts for shipments, but that's the same with any other civ).

[momuuu]

France would seem like a fine team civ to me. You just need to combine them with a versatile civ that does the infantry while they go cav. But brits/dutch/india are rly strong for 2v2 because their weaknesses are covered up for the most part.

[Kaiserklein]

France also just gets a great huss mass out in colo. You can get normal 5/5 batches early on and then with 700w 700g get big batches from 2 stables. Against civs like for example russia or dutch, where you want a lot of huss, it's quite cool.
Then yeah the problem is really that they're kind of slow in early fort. The 2 falcs are nice but they don't get tons of mass out compared to civs with a bigger eco. Then in late game, they become op ofc. Not a bad civ overall, but not a top civ.

[Hazza54321]

they are reliant on map control in order to compete with mass, thats why u often see france players have outrageous tc placements.

[benj89]

the lag has probably nothing to do with his computer since it was similar years ago when I was playing and he apparently changed it in 2017. I would guess it's either his internet or the mods

[tedere12]

my team (2v2 mostly) civs tier list:
Tier 1: Dutch, Brit, India
Tier 2: Ports, Japs, France, Russia
Tier 3: Aztecs, China, Germany, Sioux, Iro
Tier 4: Spain, Otto

[Hazza54321]

sioux higher german lower yea

[Warno]

my team (2v2 mostly) civs tier list:
Tier 1: Dutch, Brit, India
Tier 2: Ports, Japs, France, Russia
Tier 3: Aztecs, China, Germany, Sioux, Iro
Tier 4: Spain, Otto

Good list, so I guess my main question is; How does this list differ when it comes to 1v1?

Seems like Dutch/Brit/India are top tier in any format?

[momuuu]

my team (2v2 mostly) civs tier list:
Tier 1: Dutch, Brit, India
Tier 2: Ports, Japs, France, Russia
Tier 3: Aztecs, China, Germany, Sioux, Iro
Tier 4: Spain, Otto

Good list, so I guess my main question is; How does this list differ when it comes to 1v1?

Seems like Dutch/Brit/India are top tier in any format?

In 1v1 I think everything would be in one, maybe two tiers compared to these tiers. It's all way more balanced I think. Every civ is at least good at some things, while spain is for example just a handicapped civ in 2v2.

[Amsel_]

Is Japan really tier 2? It seems like they'd be kind of weak because there's twice as many units (meaning more units to attack shrines); plus you have to be careful shrining your side of the map, because it could be your team mate's hunts.

[jgals]

how ish fre weak or slow. you can get into imperial at 18m matey

I agree, good french players in team games are good to have. They often get to imperial by 20 min if no major fighting happens. If they can keep their cav alive they can reinvest most of their res. into eco and boom fast. On the other hand you get a lot of bad french players in team who suicide their cav the whole game and can't grow as a result of constantly needing to replace.

How can they reinvest their resources into eco? I would say civs like Ports/Brits/India/Japan/Dutch can invest their resources into eco, but France can't. Like said before, they can just make more Town Centers (and get trade posts for shipments, but that's the same with any other civ).

yeah you will have to forgive me i am a noob.
They can make TCS, TPS get the fortress wood upgrade from market. Three TC vil boom costs a considerable amount of resources, so if you are using your gatherers on military to replenish all your lost cav, and using your shipments on military units rather than 1000 wood to help build your TCs then you are not reinvesting your resources/shipments into eco.

Then if you are able to get all TC up but you are still replenishing all of your units you might not have enough food to reinvest into eco via the 3 TC boom which costs almost 500 res per que....

but im starting to think this nit picking criticism was a joke

[Darwin_]

Is Japan really tier 2? It seems like they'd be kind of weak because there's twice as many units (meaning more units to attack shrines); plus you have to be careful shrining your side of the map, because it could be your team mate's hunts.

That is true to a certain extent, but the map is also larger, so the extra units going after your shrines are more spread out. Also, by the time the game gets to the point where your team mate really needs those hunts (around 16-20 minutes depending on the map), Japan will be on such a power spike militarily that rebuilding them in base is not that bad. Also, once you get to age 4, the difference between having hunts on your shrines and not is really only like 5 vills. Japan's super lategame (25+ minutes) is really not that good, but if you can keep your Daimyos alive, their HP/Attack auras as well as having your reinforcements spawn right into battle give you essentially a huge military boost that makes up for your (at most really) 90 villager economy.

Here's my tier list:
1: Brits, Russia, Dutch, India
2: France, Aztec, Ports, Japan, Germany
3: Sioux, Otto, Iro, China
4: Spain

[Warno]

Is Japan really tier 2? It seems like they'd be kind of weak because there's twice as many units (meaning more units to attack shrines); plus you have to be careful shrining your side of the map, because it could be your team mate's hunts.

The biggest problem I have in 2v2 as Japan is getting rushed, usually it's hard enough to hold with walls and yumi but with twice as many units attacking it is near impossible. Even when I hold I usually have lost toshuga and have a hard time stabilizing.

[macacoalbino]

Is Japan really tier 2? It seems like they'd be kind of weak because there's twice as many units (meaning more units to attack shrines); plus you have to be careful shrining your side of the map, because it could be your team mate's hunts.

The map is also vigger, and if they go for your shrines they give you time to get the op units out and contest their map control. Also you have mates to help defend early pressure... maybe not the best at ultra late game when there are insane shit like insta imperial cuirs, but...
Idk, seems like a really good team civ to me