French vs British

[Patrick20872]

Thanks to all those you replied to my last thread it really helped

Anyway, my question is how do you beat British as France? I watched a few recorded games and they were all different. Mitoe sent team skirms and won with skirms in age 2, Kaiserklein won with a fast musk + falc combo, and Kingofosmane lost when he did the standard semi FF into goon/skirm. I'm wondering if there is a general strategy for France against British. I don't like to semi-FF because British just stay age 2 and by the time you try push them in age 3 they have an enormous army of lb + musk + hussar . Perhaps maybe it's just not a good matchup?

[yemshi]

If Pezet was as active as a year ago he could give you at least 10 threads about this exact MU.

[Sargsyan]

If pezet was as active as a year ago he would drop another album

[momuuu]

If Pezet was as active as a year ago he could give you at least 10 threads about this exact MU.

whatever, fresh strategy threads are fine. Just help out the guy while thinking about aoe3 - it can be fun.

I don't understand this match up personally. France does semi FF I think, I don't really know what happens to the brit player then. Does he pressure with musks or does that not work? Does he VC/eco FF or is that too slow? Who even wins late fortress, isn't that france favored?

[Gendarme]

I used to do 10 huss semi but I think it's just way too slow. I think you should try to capitalize on the slow tech of the Brit player (no exiled prince). I think a stagecoach semi is the way to go, keeping up with his eco and still being ahead in military in early fortress, but Brits are just fucking strong. I think they simply have the upper hand in this MU.

[Kaiserklein]

Well I personally really like the musks semi into vet musks + 2 falcs + cuir vs brits. Here is the logic behind it:

- musks are just the most solid unit in colonial against brits. Making musks means you can defend your TP, you can hold a rush (using bows and/or mm if you really need), you can defend raids, and you can pressure brits if he goes passive. You can't raid as well as with huss, but that's the only downside.

- you can train 5 more musks in transition to fortress so you reach fort with like 25 musks before 9 min. Then you research the vet upgrade upon fortress, so you have very quickly a decent mass of vet musks. That means you can ship falcs first card, because you have easily enough stuff to cover them. And that's really good because brits is gonna have trouble dealing with the falcs with his colonial army. He might be aging but he'll be fort way later than you, so you have a window to do damage.

- you also have a stable from 700w (4 cdbs 700w 700g age up) so you can train some cuirs, and probably ship 3 cuirs after 2 falcs. This is because cuirs synergize well with musks, and because brits will struggle to hold the cuirs+musks without goons. He might be aging, in which case you will have at least 5 cuirs in his base already and can try to catch the age up lbs or even the falcs.

- on some maps you can also go for 2-3 TPs stagecoach and defend the line with your musks. You will need to cut the stable and a couple houses but if brits is playing defensive it pays off, and you'll get your stable off the stagecoach wood early enough anyway.


Of course it's not an auto win, i think it's a rather fair mu or maybe slightly brits favoured, depending on the map. And if you lose your falcs, which you probably will because brit will try hard to trade units/his own falcs for your falcs, you'll have to switch to regular skirm goon cuir. No goon if you have enough musks left, and anyway not more than 10-15 goons vs brits, because you want a lot of cuirs. The amount of skirms depends on what brit is doing (if he masses vet pikes, you'll need more skirms, etc).

There's definitely some other ways to play this mu

[momuuu]

I like the idea of musk cuirasier. I'd play that very aggressively, as long as you keep the longbow count reasonably in check I don't actually think theres a unit composition that brits has that deals too well with it. I feel like if they'd start going mass goons (notice only 20% RR on EP which makes me wonder how goodthey are against musks) france can mix in some skirms and still do well.

This is the thing that makes me confused about the match up though. It feels like Cuirasiers would checkmate Brits. Longbows aren't great, but do well in skirm goon wars. However, France has the best cav in the game and I don't know how Brits would deal with a balanced composition from France. But then people say it's fair or brit favored. So either brits must win it in colonial somehow or they somehow must manage to outmass france in fortress, although I just fail to see how.

Maybe if France is getting outmassed in early-midfortress, it could work to turtle and get additional TCs to fully play it for the lategame. TCs are cheaper after all.

[Kaiserklein]

Well it kinda depends on the crates start. If france gets an early tp their fortress push is just faster. Without it feels easier for brits to age and hold, for example. It's also all about managing to defend your falconets well. Brits could for example pull vils to try and kill your falcs during a fight.

And yeah cuirs are good vs brits because cuirs overall perform better against musks or pikes than against goons. So his colonial heavy inf will not be so scary when you have cuirs. Then brits don't have a goon shipment in fort, only 9 musks, which you might not be able to upgrade since you will use your wood to rebuild stuff sieged by falcs and musks. And they kinda need to ship falcs first to compete with your falcs anyway, so not a very scary mass of anti cav. I guess a musks semi from brits would hold this push more easily, but for some reason people don't go musks semi as brits.

[Garja]

Musk start as Brits puts you on the backfoot vs any other strat basically.

[[Armag] diarouga]

As a Brit player I'm more annoyed by the 5 musk semi because it's just solid vs early agressions while being the best option vs greedy semi ff.

[Ashvin]

Hey what about I do 10-15 xbow semi and then train 1 more batch in fortress and send that card which converts xbows to skirms? I always wanted to use that card.

[[Armag] diarouga]

Hey what about I do 10-15 xbow semi and then train 1 more batch in fortress and send that card which converts xbows to skirms? I always wanted to use that card.

That would be very bad
First you don't want to make xbows because they cost wood. In addition you wouldn't achieve anything with these bows, they can't siege, and they just vs lb (musks are actually better fighting units vs lb), and the age 3 shipment is terrible.
Like you would have a 30 skirm timing with the card, which would get demolished by a brit going age 2 and making 10 huss. Honestly, a 25 vet musks+2falcs+cuirs otw is super scary and I'm not sure there are better counters to a semi ff.

[deleted_user]

build a proxy stable, and when that one gets scouted, build another on the other side. Meanwhile, FI.

[Kaiserklein]

As a Brit player I'm more annoyed by the 5 musk semi because it's just solid vs early agressions while being the best option vs greedy semi ff.

I don't understand, what are 5 musks supposed to achieve?

[DaRkNiTe1698]

As a Brit player I'm more annoyed by the 5 musk semi because it's just solid vs early agressions while being the best option vs greedy semi ff.

I don't understand, what are 5 musks supposed to achieve?

Maybe he means that with proper defense, 5 musk can be enough to hold an early aggression , plus , since it's 5musk only, instead of 10 or more, it's the best option vs greedy play, because you spent less resources in units

[[Armag] diarouga]

As a Brit player I'm more annoyed by the 5 musk semi because it's just solid vs early agressions while being the best option vs greedy semi ff.

I don't understand, what are 5 musks supposed to achieve?

I meant 15.

[Kaiserklein]

I agree

[Mitoe]

Wait, there's a rec where I go early skirm?

[momuuu]

Hey what about I do 10-15 xbow semi and then train 1 more batch in fortress and send that card which converts xbows to skirms? I always wanted to use that card.

Xbows are actually deceptively expensive compared to skirms. I believe (I put this equation in a very messy form in google so could be wrong) you'd need 42 xbows upgraded to skirmishers to get the same value in terms of villager seconds as an 8 skirm shipment.

[momuuu]

Well it kinda depends on the crates start. If france gets an early tp their fortress push is just faster. Without it feels easier for brits to age and hold, for example. It's also all about managing to defend your falconets well. Brits could for example pull vils to try and kill your falcs during a fight.

And yeah cuirs are good vs brits because cuirs overall perform better against musks or pikes than against goons. So his colonial heavy inf will not be so scary when you have cuirs. Then brits don't have a goon shipment in fort, only 9 musks, which you might not be able to upgrade since you will use your wood to rebuild stuff sieged by falcs and musks. And they kinda need to ship falcs first to compete with your falcs anyway, so not a very scary mass of anti cav. I guess a musks semi from brits would hold this push more easily, but for some reason people don't go musks semi as brits.

I keep getting the feeling France should win this match up. How exactly does brits win it in your opinion?

[Kaiserklein]

From my experience brits can sometimes just hold the vet falcs + musks push. They just buy time using lb range shooting at your musks, they probably lose a rax and maybe another building, and then they get their own falcs (note that on larger maps your army will take more time to cross the map so it negates a bit the faster age up) and be fine sitting in base with lb falcs and pikes or whatever.
Colonial play sounds harder for brits, they rely on finding a way to kill the falcs without losing their entire army.

The thing is that if brits can hold without taking too much damage, they will have a window to outmass you with their superior eco, and lbs are just really good. If you reach late game, france is favoured because they will sit their cdbs on the last hunt(s) of the map and it will be hard for brits to contest that, and carded cuirs are scary. But before that brits can outmass you and pressure you.

[Mitoe]

A musk/huss timing can also be difficult to hold as France if you commit too much to taking and defending TPs and slow yourself down.

[Hazza54321]

also doesnt involve the units skirms and goons #notmitoeapproved

[Kickass_OP]

I do not know why, but I prefer 5 semi hussars + 1 tp. Age 3, 8 + 7 skins card + curr on coudelaria, 15 skins is enough to kill musketeers, not to mention that the opponent will not be prepared.

[tedere12]

Coudelaria op