French vs British

[Garja]

I think a standard Brit cav start into musks and eventually all 3 units has decent chances of working. You just need to execute everything well and figure out what's the best time window to use your army (you are not winning of course if you sit forever and one age behind). I'd say 10 min is usually the time reference for pushing. 8ish minute tends to be too early for Brits (even if you get reasonable army pop) and at that point you generally don't have all 3 unit types and your eco isn't kicking in yet. Brit can also take advantage of the rax start from French to spread on the map and that helps later on because it reduces vill idle time. Probably Brit can or should cut vill production at like 50 vills since at that point it's all about pumping out units and winning battles.
Alternatively there is the VC approach where you make as few units as possible and age up. I feel like Fre can just go industrial vs that tho.

[macacoalbino]

I really like this MU
I think there are so many options to both civs that there's not a single "proper" way of playing the MU

[[Armag] diarouga]

Well it kinda depends on the crates start. If france gets an early tp their fortress push is just faster. Without it feels easier for brits to age and hold, for example. It's also all about managing to defend your falconets well. Brits could for example pull vils to try and kill your falcs during a fight.

And yeah cuirs are good vs brits because cuirs overall perform better against musks or pikes than against goons. So his colonial heavy inf will not be so scary when you have cuirs. Then brits don't have a goon shipment in fort, only 9 musks, which you might not be able to upgrade since you will use your wood to rebuild stuff sieged by falcs and musks. And they kinda need to ship falcs first to compete with your falcs anyway, so not a very scary mass of anti cav. I guess a musks semi from brits would hold this push more easily, but for some reason people don't go musks semi as brits.

I keep getting the feeling France should win this match up. How exactly does brits win it in your opinion?

It really depends on the map.
If there are many TPs (like Arizona/High Plains etc), you have to fight for the TP line as Brit, else you get outboomed because a 4-5 TP eco is better than the brit eco. In this case you have to commit longer to colonial, and your 3rd age will be too late to hold the falc timing (you can try to hold still, it's very hard and you have to outplay but I've managed to hold even vs top players) so France is favoured.
On low TP maps though (Manchac, GP etc), you should be able to semi ff with 700w/5v/700c and get your 2 falcs just in time to hold, and then be in a nice spot with good eco and a solid age 3 timing, so here I'd say that it is slightly Brit favoured, even though it's rather close because one raid or one bad fight can change the game.

I never play musk/huss as Brit in this MU but in my opinion it's just bad: you're not going to stop him from aging because 15musks+mm+cdb just hold any musk/huss timing, and then you'll be facing an age 3 composition, and you should lose if you don't manage to kill the 2 falcs.

[greatscythe11]

Is it fair to say that owing to lack of skirms British have a weakness vs high hp heavy infantry? Longbows do 22 damage vs HI compared with 34 vs ranged cav(Yumis are similar but have more cards). India seem to exploit this weakness with sepoy heavy compositions. Dops do pretty decent vs Brit. Several comments have mentioned about using vet musks. I don't know how Jaguars do vs brit but it seems they should do well.

[Kaiserklein]

Is it fair to say that owing to lack of skirms British have a weakness vs high hp heavy infantry? Longbows do 22 damage vs HI compared with 34 vs ranged cav(Yumis are similar but have more cards). India seem to exploit this weakness with sepoy heavy compositions. Dops do pretty decent vs Brit. Several comments have mentioned about using vet musks. I don't know how Jaguars do vs brit but it seems they should do well.

The multiplier against ranged cav is 1.5, not 2. That's due to having a 2 multiplier against ranged cav, but also a 0.75 multiplier against all cav. And when you take into account the range resist, which heavy inf doesn't have, the damage is probably similar. That's irrelevant anyway.
But yes, brits don't have a real counter to strong musketeers. Dops are shit vs brits though, since musks beat dops and brit musks are pretty strong. Jags are pretty shit overall.

[greatscythe11]

Yeah, correct, thanks for clarifying. Just checked-22 vs 26. Didn't think the multiplier was that complicated.

[Garja]

Lbows shots twice as fast. They in fact do just fine vs HI. They can't kite tho.

[DaRkNiTe1698]

Well it kinda depends on the crates start. If france gets an early tp their fortress push is just faster. Without it feels easier for brits to age and hold, for example. It's also all about managing to defend your falconets well. Brits could for example pull vils to try and kill your falcs during a fight.

And yeah cuirs are good vs brits because cuirs overall perform better against musks or pikes than against goons. So his colonial heavy inf will not be so scary when you have cuirs. Then brits don't have a goon shipment in fort, only 9 musks, which you might not be able to upgrade since you will use your wood to rebuild stuff sieged by falcs and musks. And they kinda need to ship falcs first to compete with your falcs anyway, so not a very scary mass of anti cav. I guess a musks semi from brits would hold this push more easily, but for some reason people don't go musks semi as brits.

I keep getting the feeling France should win this match up. How exactly does brits win it in your opinion?

How can you feel it if you rarely play french though

[tedere12]

Lol

[Gendarme]

Shots fired! Get rekt, fuckfase Jermon.

[macacoalbino]

I never play musk/huss as Brit in this MU but in my opinion it's just bad: you're not going to stop him from aging because 15musks+mm+cdb just hold any musk/huss timing, and then you'll be facing an age 3 composition, and you should lose if you don't manage to kill the 2 falcs.

What if France starts stable though?

[Hazza54321]

pike semi i presume

[Hazza54321]

when in doubt semi ff