TOTW #24: It can be Bad to not take advantage of good Merceneries

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Re: TOTW #24: It can be Bad to not take advantage of good Merceneries

Post by Kaiserklein »

If you just want fusiliers to raid, you're not gonna mass them. And when you have only a few of them, they actually die to 20 goons or so, or to some hand cav. So you're gonna get caught and waste shit tons of gold.
Btw hand cav has more dps than fusiliers and moves faster anyway, so idk why you'd need fusiliers for that.
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Re: TOTW #24: It can be Bad to not take advantage of good Merceneries

Post by glorious_ »

[Armag] diarouga wrote:I'd argue that Highlanders/Hackapells/Swiss pikes aren't really situation, they're almost always bad.
Jaeger/brs/mams/manchus and elmetis (you forgot these) should be used though. The issue is that you have to invest in a saloon, which is a waste of wood sometimes, and that such strats are very gold expensive.


I agree with most of those but why hakkapells? Granted pure hakka are bad because half of them die on the way but mixed with uhlans/huss etc. they can be quite good (unless the opponent has a exeptionally well micro). As we ll for raids they are just op.

I guess swiss pike were more used in nilla but still they can be quite good in some situations.
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Re: TOTW #24: It can be Bad to not take advantage of good Merceneries

Post by [Armag] diarouga »

glorious_ wrote:
[Armag] diarouga wrote:I'd argue that Highlanders/Hackapells/Swiss pikes aren't really situation, they're almost always bad.
Jaeger/brs/mams/manchus and elmetis (you forgot these) should be used though. The issue is that you have to invest in a saloon, which is a waste of wood sometimes, and that such strats are very gold expensive.


I agree with most of those but why hakkapells? Granted pure hakka are bad because half of them die on the way but mixed with uhlans/huss etc. they can be quite good (unless the opponent has a exeptionally well micro). As we ll for raids they are just op.

I guess swiss pike were more used in nilla but still they can be quite good in some situations.

This was assuming your opponent plays well.
Focusing Hackapells isn't really hard, I can do that while my micro isn't the greatest. Honestly they'll just die before they can do anything and that's a waste of gold.

As for swiss pikes that's again assuming good micro skills. Pikes in general are bad because, since they're slower than cav, they won't ever damage cav, and they suck vs infantry (they don't even tank well), so you don't really want pikes in your unit composition.
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Re: TOTW #24: It can be Bad to not take advantage of good Merceneries

Post by glorious_ »

[Armag] diarouga wrote:
glorious_ wrote:
[Armag] diarouga wrote:I'd argue that Highlanders/Hackapells/Swiss pikes aren't really situation, they're almost always bad.
Jaeger/brs/mams/manchus and elmetis (you forgot these) should be used though. The issue is that you have to invest in a saloon, which is a waste of wood sometimes, and that such strats are very gold expensive.


I agree with most of those but why hakkapells? Granted pure hakka are bad because half of them die on the way but mixed with uhlans/huss etc. they can be quite good (unless the opponent has a exeptionally well micro). As we ll for raids they are just op.

I guess swiss pike were more used in nilla but still they can be quite good in some situations.

This was assuming your opponent plays well.
Focusing Hackapells isn't really hard, I can do that while my micro isn't the greatest. Honestly they'll just die before they can do anything and that's a waste of gold.

As for swiss pikes that's again assuming good micro skills. Pikes in general are bad because, since they're slower than cav, they won't ever damage cav, and they suck vs infantry (they don't even tank well), so you don't really want pikes in your unit composition.


Well I agree with your points. Obviously you can have much more units for the cost of 1 hakkapel which die considerably less fast. As well you can only build one saloon which doesn't make the producing of the unit very effective even if you have enough gold.

Well I agree with you on the pikes, usually you use them in age III because later they are useless anyway but since every game a goons/skirm composition is somehow done they will die way too fast.
In team however they are probably more viable.
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Re: TOTW #24: It can be Bad to not take advantage of good Merceneries

Post by forgrin »

Hackapells aren't bad persay, they just have a small niche in vill raiding. Unfortunately without high hp they just can't do hand cav's job, which is to tank, so they're pretty useless in fights.
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Re: TOTW #24: It can be Bad to not take advantage of good Merceneries

Post by Garja »

Cav job is also to flank your army and clean it up. Hackapells do great at that.
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Re: TOTW #24: It can be Bad to not take advantage of good Merceneries

Post by [Armag] diarouga »

forgrin wrote:Hackapells aren't bad persay, they just have a small niche in vill raiding. Unfortunately without high hp they just can't do hand cav's job, which is to tank, so they're pretty useless in fights.

They're good at raiding for sure but that's it.
Thus they can be viable in team but almost never in 1v1.
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Re: TOTW #24: It can be Bad to not take advantage of good Merceneries

Post by Kaiserklein »

Hackapells are fine, stradiots are probably a bit better overall (though these 2 cav don't really serve the same purpose). Highlanders are strong but if the opponent goes for skirm goon with a solid micro they'll be kind of useless (they still do great in some mus, like against brits or china for example). Corsairs are actually good if the guy goes skirm goon and has nothing to block them. Jaegers are OP, manchus as well, BRs are fine. Mams and elmetis are great, but available in age 4 only, so basically useless.
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Re: TOTW #24: It can be Bad to not take advantage of good Merceneries

Post by greatscythe11 »

Are Jat Lancers viable especially vs infantry heavy compositions such as Japan? Just feel like dont see them enough.
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Re: TOTW #24: It can be Bad to not take advantage of good Merceneries

Post by yemshi »

Jat Lancers are exclusive age IV India unit. In IV Urumi Sepoy is always better.
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Re: TOTW #24: It can be Bad to not take advantage of good Merceneries

  • Quote

Post by lemmings121 »

deleted_user wrote:How are 7 speed Fusiliers bad?


300g :(

2 falconet > 3 fusilier. they are just too expensive..

edit: 2000 posts!

I should stop posting now.
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Re: TOTW #24: It can be Bad to not take advantage of good Merceneries

Post by deleted_user »

lemmings121 wrote:
deleted_user wrote:How are 7 speed Fusiliers bad?


300g :(

2 falconet > 3 fusilier. they are just too expensive..

edit: 2000 posts!

I should stop posting now.

Accelerate your posting to new speed
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Re: TOTW #24: It can be Bad to not take advantage of good Merceneries

Post by Jerimuno »

gibson wrote:problem is if you count on raiding to win youre counting on your opponent to play badly to win, which isnt really a good way to play



Why would you call it a bad way of playing?
Raiding is just another way of getting an advantage over your opponent by outplaying him, which ultimately is the best way of playing.
Of course you shouldn't solely rely on raiding, but raiding should still be an integral part of every single game.
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Re: TOTW #24: It can be Bad to not take advantage of good Merceneries

Post by deleted_user0 »

yemshi wrote:Jat Lancers are exclusive age IV India unit. In IV Urumi Sepoy is always better.


nah its not. urumi is better vs heavy inf. lancers are better vs light inf. also jat lancers have like 7 speed and 40% RR. they can help you catch an army and snare it until your mass urumi catches up. however, i dont think you can usually miss a slot for them, and maybe the tiger claws do a better job cuz its harder to micro vs them.
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Re: TOTW #24: It can be Bad to not take advantage of good Merceneries

Post by Kaiserklein »

Jerimuno wrote:
gibson wrote:problem is if you count on raiding to win youre counting on your opponent to play badly to win, which isnt really a good way to play



Why would you call it a bad way of playing?
Raiding is just another way of getting an advantage over your opponent by outplaying him, which ultimately is the best way of playing.
Of course you shouldn't solely rely on raiding, but raiding should still be an integral part of every single game.

I think if both players don't make mistakes, you won't be able to kill vils, but you will lose the units you sent to raid. So gibson is right that raiding works only because the opponent makes mistakes, so it's not really the right way to play. But in practice it works, because no one is perfect.
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Re: TOTW #24: It can be Bad to not take advantage of good Merceneries

Post by Kaiserklein »

yemshi wrote:Jat Lancers are exclusive age IV India unit. In IV Urumi Sepoy is always better.

Urumi sepoy is bad against anyone who makes skirms and can hit and run. And it's also quite all in because it means you spend all your shipments on military instead if upgrades.
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LoOk_tOm wrote:I have something in particular against Kaisar (GERMANY NOOB mercenary LAMME FOREVER) And the other people (noobs) like suck kaiser ... just this ..
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Re: TOTW #24: It can be Bad to not take advantage of good Merceneries

Post by Jerimuno »

That's so contradictory of you to say, if neither player makes a mistake then naturally the player who sends cav to raid will not lose them either lol.
And as your first proirity when raiding is to not lose any units, it will definitely benefit you, since the other player will either have to pull back some units, idle his vils, or even lose them. Whie you can keep your hus or whatever unit you send and then use them in battle later on.
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Re: TOTW #24: It can be Bad to not take advantage of good Merceneries

Post by Ashvin »

Kaiserklein wrote:
yemshi wrote:Jat Lancers are exclusive age IV India unit. In IV Urumi Sepoy is always better.

Urumi sepoy is bad against anyone who makes skirms and can hit and run. And it's also quite all in because it means you spend all your shipments on military instead if upgrades.

India doesn't have much upgrade cards tbh
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Re: TOTW #24: It can be Bad to not take advantage of good Merceneries

Post by Kaiserklein »

Jerimuno wrote:That's so contradictory of you to say, if neither player makes a mistake then naturally the player who sends cav to raid will not lose them either lol.
And as your first proirity when raiding is to not lose any units, it will definitely benefit you, since the other player will either have to pull back some units, idle his vils, or even lose them. Whie you can keep your hus or whatever unit you send and then use them in battle later on.

No because by sending a couple units into your opponent's base, you put these units in a dangerous position. It's easy to split your cav and trap 1-2 cav from your opponent. Imagine a perfect player, he would just be able to split his 10 huss 1 by one and completely surround the raid. That's just logical: the defender has line of sight and a lot of units, while you just have a couple huss and can't see shit. No matter how perfect you play, if you're surrounded, you can't escape your cav. So yeah, I think raids shouldn't be a thing in theory, then again of course in practice it works.
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LoOk_tOm wrote:I have something in particular against Kaisar (GERMANY NOOB mercenary LAMME FOREVER) And the other people (noobs) like suck kaiser ... just this ..
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Re: TOTW #24: It can be Bad to not take advantage of good Merceneries

Post by Kaiserklein »

Ashvin wrote:
Kaiserklein wrote:
yemshi wrote:Jat Lancers are exclusive age IV India unit. In IV Urumi Sepoy is always better.

Urumi sepoy is bad against anyone who makes skirms and can hit and run. And it's also quite all in because it means you spend all your shipments on military instead if upgrades.

India doesn't have much upgrade cards tbh

There's royal mint, the gurkha/sepoy/sowar 10% card, the age 4 5% on all units card, elephant cards... I'm not saying you should always send these upgrades, just saying that shipping only infinite urumi is quite all in.
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LoOk_tOm wrote:I have something in particular against Kaisar (GERMANY NOOB mercenary LAMME FOREVER) And the other people (noobs) like suck kaiser ... just this ..
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Re: TOTW #24: It can be Bad to not take advantage of good Merceneries

Post by Kaiserklein »

Ashvin wrote:
Kaiserklein wrote:
yemshi wrote:Jat Lancers are exclusive age IV India unit. In IV Urumi Sepoy is always better.

Urumi sepoy is bad against anyone who makes skirms and can hit and run. And it's also quite all in because it means you spend all your shipments on military instead if upgrades.

India doesn't have much upgrade cards tbh

There's royal mint, the gurkha/sepoy/sowar 10% card, the age 4 5% on all units card, elephant cards... I'm not saying you should always send these upgrades, just saying that shipping only infinite urumi is quite all in.
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LoOk_tOm wrote:I have something in particular against Kaisar (GERMANY NOOB mercenary LAMME FOREVER) And the other people (noobs) like suck kaiser ... just this ..
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Re: TOTW #24: It can be Bad to not take advantage of good Merceneries

Post by yemshi »

And still wins games on its own.
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Re: TOTW #24: It can be Bad to not take advantage of good Merceneries

Post by Ashvin »

Kaiserklein wrote:
Ashvin wrote:
Show hidden quotes

India doesn't have much upgrade cards tbh

There's royal mint, the gurkha/sepoy/sowar 10% card, the age 4 5% on all units card, elephant cards... I'm not saying you should always send these upgrades, just saying that shipping only infinite urumi is quite all in.

yeah I'd still choose urumi over any other cards, yeah British East India Company which gives 10% on sepoy sowar gurkha is a good card. 5% on all units is a good card in team. But I generally send these after my first urumi card.
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Re: TOTW #24: It can be Bad to not take advantage of good Merceneries

Post by Kaiserklein »

yemshi wrote:And still wins games on its own.

Not if the guy has skirms and knows how to hit and run.
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