Dutch vs Ottoman

[_DB_]

[img]http://i.imgur.com/cSd61gp.jpg[/img] [img]http://i.imgur.com/RuWkJWf.jpg[/img]

How to beat ottolamers in case if
Otto FF
Otto Rush
What would smart otto player usually do against you playing Dutch

How to exactly play in this MU?

[[Armag] diarouga]

vs a jan/abus, go skirm/huss. 700w/bank/600w, build rax from 700w.
Vs a ff go ff 700w/bank with 3 banks.

[DogSoldier_]

u can try naked german ff

[edeholland]

u can try naked german ff

no

[DogSoldier_]

u can try naked german ff

no

or just make 2 towers and send 9 bows

[_DB_]

no

or just make 2 towers and send 9 bows

lol? Its about Dutch, not otto. Dont go off topic, pls.

[momuuu]

This match up is not as bad as the average match up vs Otto. Dutch does an surprisingly good job vs Ottos imo. The real problem is that Otto can succesfully pull off almost every strat they have. Jan huss, Jan abus, FF with a falc or mam timing (or both), and even fast revolt can work, so it's really important to get optimal scouting in this match up.

Jan huss can be defended with a skirm pike semi ff. I'm not sure if you can get away with a 700w start, since otto hits early and hard, but you can test it. Otherwise go with the standard Bank wagon. After that you probably want to ship 8 pikes. It's going to be really important to get up some good walls and gates to try to mediate the damage as much as possible. I don't think you can hold it if you don't invest some into these walls.

Jan Abus is similair to Jan huss in its timing. It hits relatively early and very hard. Abus are a serious problem, as Dutch you want to rely on your skirms and their insane range, but abus have a good range too. You have a 2 range advantage, and I think it is possible to actually hit and run abus, if you are on top of your micro (you basically need to instantly move back after even 1 skirm gets in range, but if you do this well you can get a lot of free damage in). Its possible to do a skirm semi ff. I'd advise to go Bank wagon - 700 wood - colonial militia. Normally you'd go 600w, but you don't really need any more eco or infrastructure to win, you just need to get to age 3 without taking too much damage. It's still tough, but very doable if you micro your skirms well. You could also go for a Skirm huss colonial, but I don't have as much experience with that so I cant guide you too much in that.

Ottos can do a variety of FF timings. It's really hard to scout them doing FF though. If they age up with a tower and 200c, you can expect a really aggresove FF. In that case, I'd advise considering the classic mr Milo FF (700w 700f) and just spam Ruyters. Otherwise, 700w 600w is probably better, or maybe Bank wagon 700w. You probably dont want to go for a 4 Bank ff, thats too greedy. But a straight 3 bank FF is probably good. Otto's timings consist of early Jan Falc pushes (which can be really early, especially if he puts the tower from the age up near your base), later Jan Falc with a more sizeable Jan (and possibly abus) army, and Jan Mam timings. Against the falcs and Mams you don't really want skirms. That's why Id advise going for double stable and just spamming ruyters. Abuse your mobility, raid them, intercept their reinforcements, try to catch them out of position when moving out, fire a few free shots at mams that are slightly out of position. The necessary skirms can be shipped from the HC, no real need to train them. Against the mam timing it can be good to invest some wood in a wall near your third hunt and mine, and place the skirms behind that.

Fast revolt is also a serios, but rare threat. I keep 6 petards in my deck. Scout his first age 3 shipment: If it isnt some unit shipments, just ship your 6 petards, destroy his TC and laugh at him. Its a decent card, I think it migh win you about 1% of your games, which is worth the slot.

This match up is really fun, Otto lamers are often overrated, but this match up is not that bad, so you'll generally have an advantage over an otto player of equal pr.

[_DB_]

This match up is not as bad as the average match up vs Otto. Dutch does an surprisingly good job vs Ottos imo. The real problem is that Otto can succesfully pull off almost every strat they have. Jan huss, Jan abus, FF with a falc or mam timing (or both), and even fast revolt can work, so it''s really important to get optimal scouting in this match up.

Jan huss can be defended with a skirm pike semi ff. I''m not sure if you can get away with a 700w start, since otto hits early and hard, but you can test it. Otherwise go with the standard Bank wagon. After that you probably want to ship 8 pikes. It''s going to be really important to get up some good walls and gates to try to mediate the damage as much as possible. I don''t think you can hold it if you don''t invest some into these walls.

Jan Abus is similair to Jan huss in its timing. It hits relatively early and very hard. Abus are a serious problem, as Dutch you want to rely on your skirms and their insane range, but abus have a good range too. You have a 2 range advantage, and I think it is possible to actually hit and run abus, if you are on top of your micro (you basically need to instantly move back after even 1 skirm gets in range, but if you do this well you can get a lot of free damage in). Its possible to do a skirm semi ff. I''d advise to go Bank wagon - 700 wood - colonial militia. Normally you''d go 600w, but you don''t really need any more eco or infrastructure to win, you just need to get to age 3 without taking too much damage. It''s still tough, but very doable if you micro your skirms well. You could also go for a Skirm huss colonial, but I don''t have as much experience with that so I cant guide you too much in that.

Ottos can do a variety of FF timings. It''s really hard to scout them doing FF though. If they age up with a tower and 200c, you can expect a really aggresove FF. In that case, I''d advise considering the classic mr Milo FF (700w 700f) and just spam Ruyters. Otherwise, 700w 600w is probably better, or maybe Bank wagon 700w. You probably dont want to go for a 4 Bank ff, thats too greedy. But a straight 3 bank FF is probably good. Otto''s timings consist of early Jan Falc pushes (which can be really early, especially if he puts the tower from the age up near your base), later Jan Falc with a more sizeable Jan (and possibly abus) army, and Jan Mam timings. Against the falcs and Mams you don''t really want skirms. That''s why Id advise going for double stable and just spamming ruyters. Abuse your mobility, raid them, intercept their reinforcements, try to catch them out of position when moving out, fire a few free shots at mams that are slightly out of position. The necessary skirms can be shipped from the HC, no real need to train them. Against the mam timing it can be good to invest some wood in a wall near your third hunt and mine, and place the skirms behind that.

Fast revolt is also a serios, but rare threat. I keep 6 petards in my deck. Scout his first age 3 shipment: If it isnt some unit shipments, just ship your 6 petards, destroy his TC and laugh at him. Its a decent card, I think it migh win you about 1% of your games, which is worth the slot.

This match up is really fun, Otto lamers are often overrated, but this match up is not that bad, so you''ll generally have an advantage over an otto player of equal pr.

Great! I managed to beat 4 ottolamers in this MU with this. Thanks!

[yemshi]

Ruyter beat the complete Otto army or at least do a good job.

[rsy]

Ruyter beat the complete Otto army or at least do a good job.

idk man feels like abus just kinda rape everything dutch got

[benj89]

yeah abus rape so you better be age3 by the time he got a good jan/abus mass, which isn't smtg easy to do. As otto I would just classic ff, there is really nothing the dutch can do abt it. I'd say the only luck for the dutch to win is by out microing hard, or if the otto stays colo
and ofc wall in this mu, he lames after all :p

[yemshi]

They do better than anything else. Skirms do the same job. But you'd need to up them and build a rax. Abus even rape falcs though they'd do the best and most costefficient job to abus.They are to expensive though. The Otto is to fast in your base to make your falcs worth it - if you have some at this point. His 4huss would just annihilate your falcs.
Ruyters can also shoot abus down.
Not costefficient but regarding the Ottos eco it's just fine.

[benj89]

yeah I'd try to arrive at the point where you have few skirm to micro his jan, and spam ruyt. reaching that point is the hard part :p