India vs French

[Goodspeed]

What I don't get is the "requirement" to send 600w before 300e. This is non sense, a cons costs 200w and you are spending way more than that on market ups without randomly requiring 600w.

Trickle is just a mediocre card. It's like 4v for Brit, when do you ever send that? You simply have more important cards to send like 600g for an age up, 600w, camel attack, whatever.
But yeah it's the second eco card to send if you get to send 2. This does happen in long term colonial games but this really is rare. In the vast majority of games you either want to hit a quick timing as they hit fortress or age up yourself. No one in their right mind plays a long colonial game against India any more.

[_venox_]

Another India player or a drunk Russia player might try colonial vs India. I guess the trickle could be seen as a replacement for 600 wood' instead of going 600 w 300 export (which by no means needs to be send in that order but it's nice to add a stable clonsulate and a tp with 600w) go trickle then 300 export, maybe.

[momuuu]

How much export do the 4 vills from consulate cost?

[princeofkabul]

Has to be tested but I think a semi 5 huss should beat it. Nagayumi used to do a 14/20 karni with 4vills on and he ages at 4min30 with a TP while aging so idk if 10/10 is better.

How would 5 hus beat it? 10/10 karni has option to adapt to your stable start, and make 5 zams and with full market.

[_venox_]

300 export http://ageofempires.wikia.com/wiki/Consulate

[princeofkabul]

Any type of 10/10 thing just sucks though. Even with market, the build is 20% behind in terms of eco of a normal India slow age up, even agra.

I haven''t tested this vs France so I can''t really judge this strat.

I''d give GoodSpeed a cookie for discovery of the legend 10/10 karni. Gj gs. You deserve the credit.
Imo, sepoy+gurk works better vs France in early age 2.

How would you know any 10 10 sucks. I see 10/10 karni very viable.

[momuuu]

300 export?http://ageofempires.wikia.com/wiki/Consulate

yeah then 300exp is seemingly a lot better.. Especially since its actually 375 export.

[_venox_]

It's only 375 export if you ally yourself once, for each alliance it's +75 export more so it'd be better to say it's 300 export and 75 off each alliance.

[[Armag] diarouga]

Any type of 10/10 thing just sucks though. Even with market, the build is 20% behind in terms of eco of a normal India slow age up, even agra.

I havent tested this vs France so I cant really judge this strat.

Id give GoodSpeed a cookie for discovery of the legend 10/10 karni. Gj gs. You deserve the credit.
Imo, sepoy+gurk works better vs France in early age 2.

How would you know any 10 10 sucks. I see 10/10 karni very viable.

Show me that when youll be in ESO

[_DB_]

Lol. 10/10 Karni will give you like +1 minute of idle TC time.
A player with slow age up will have 19-20 vils as he ages. With 10/10 karni, you'll have only 14-15 vils at age up which is worse than 300 export 4 vil tech itself.

And how come are you going to have full market with 10/10 karni with TP? It isn't even possible. It will take you years to have a market after TP during aging if you think you're doing non-stop vil production. 10/10 karni full market TP is imaginary strat. Try it, it's impossible unless you're on deccan or carolina.

And to be honest, TP is better than market. You faster shipments, means faster vils, means better boom. The negligible market enhancements won't be worth against a single TP shipment speed. If you get both, you rock without discontinuation in vil production, you win.

[princeofkabul]

Lol. 10/10 Karni will give you like +1 minute of idle TC time.
A player with slow age up will have 19-20 vils as he ages. With 10/10 karni, you''ll have only 14-15 vils at age up which is worse than 300 export 4 vil tech itself.

And how come are you going to have full market with 10/10 karni with TP? It isn''t even possible. It will take you years to have a market after TP during aging if you think you''re doing non-stop vil production. 10/10 karni full market TP is imaginary strat. Try it, it''s impossible unless you''re on deccan or carolina.

And to be honest, TP is better than market. You faster shipments, means faster vils, means better boom. The negligible market enhancements won''t be worth against a single TP shipment speed. If you get both, you rock without discontinuation in vil production, you win.

+1 idle tc time? you obviously have no idea what you''re talking about so don''t.

[_DB_]

Lol. 10/10 Karni will give you like +1 minute of idle TC time.
A player with slow age up will have 19-20 vils as he ages. With 10/10 karni, youll have only 14-15 vils at age up which is worse than 300 export 4 vil tech itself.

And how come are you going to have full market with 10/10 karni with TP? It isnt even possible. It will take you years to have a market after TP during aging if you think youre doing non-stop vil production. 10/10 karni full market TP is imaginary strat. Try it, its impossible unless youre on deccan or carolina.

And to be honest, TP is better than market. You faster shipments, means faster vils, means better boom. The negligible market enhancements wont be worth against a single TP shipment speed. If you get both, you rock without discontinuation in vil production, you win.

+1 idle tc time? you obviously have no idea what youre talking about so dont.

Do it. Its practically true.

[princeofkabul]

+1 idle tc time? you obviously have no idea what youre talking about so dont.

Do it. Its practically true.

Ive done it many times. Learn to play first before you come with your bs theories pls.

[Goodspeed]

+1 idle tc time? you obviously have no idea what youre talking about so dont.

Do it. Its practically true.

With 0 tres perhaps. When does India get 0 tres?
Besides, 1 min is not 4-5 vills as you seem to think, its 3. Realistically you will lose on average about 2-3 vills (~45s) by going 10/10, Ive done the build enough times to know that. The 1 min faster age up often makes up for this though as it allows you to focus on eco more since youre safe from pressure. The earlier 4v shipment, earlier TP, earlier market ups etc, all add up too.

[deleted_user0]

Hes right tho... A shipment is 40 sec, your 10th vil arrives at around 1.40, if you dont get any crazy tres with wood or xp, your shipment should be sent around 2.00 and your house + 100w for next vil should be gathered around the time your trickle + vil arrives, meaning you have roughly 1 min of not using the tc to make vils

You do get your shipments and next 2 viks from card faster and you have 0 vils on wonder instead of 1-4, meaning the difference wont be as big in the beginning but the gap wil widen if u dont use your speed advantage to do eco dmg

[deleted_user0]

Do it. Its practically true.?

With 0 tres perhaps. When does India get 0 tres?
Besides, 1 min is not 4-5 vills as you seem to think, its 3. Realistically you will lose on average about 2-3 vills (~45s) by going 10/10, Ive done the build enough times to know that. The 1 min faster age up often makes up for this though as it allows you to focus on eco more since youre safe from pressure. The earlier 4v shipment, earlier TP, earlier market ups etc, all add up too.

In mus where speed matter its completely fine

[Goodspeed]

Hes right tho... A shipment is 40 sec, your 10th vil arrives at around 1.40, if you dont get any crazy tres with wood or xp, your shipment should be sent around 2.00 and your house + 100w for next vil should be gathered around the time your trickle + vil arrives, meaning you have roughly 1 min of not using the tc to make vils

You do get your shipments and next 2 viks from card faster and you have 0 vils on wonder instead of 1-4, meaning the difference wont be as big in the beginning but the gap wil widen if u dont use your speed advantage to do eco dmg

Or to boom harder yourself... Or to age.
Yes in the very long term it''s worse, but slow karni is just that: (too) slow. Comparing it to agra, you are missing a free eco theory and 500 res from age up.

Speed is important and somewhat underrated in the current meta.

[deleted_user0]

Ye it definitely is important, i just never really liked the karni, its bonus doesnt last long enough and you are more vulnerable in many ways. It can be useful, but i feel its pretty niche.

Also 500 res missing compared to agra is not true, it gives you an instant rax + 240 worth of units, so you are 60c behind comparatively, not even counting the lost gather time for making a rax with karni, which would knock the equation down to 45 maybe.

[manojhere]

Yeah, Sepoy rush is just not much hard for France to deal with. Coreurs just dont die.
I saw rec of asc finals, h2o vs bs india vs french. H2O won with slow agra rush because blackstar went for cav semi FF with random wall glitch and didnt get great coats too early and H2O microed pretty well.

France and india are 2 of my best civs and I can tell you that india dont win.

Atleast someone knows

Only a player who has ever played this MU knows how hard is it for India. It isnt easy for France either, but France has more ways to win though hardly. India doesnt.

What is your pr DB ??and nick ??

[[Armag] diarouga]

Ye it definitely is important, i just never really liked the karni, its bonus doesnt last long enough and you are more vulnerable in many ways. It can be useful, but i feel its pretty niche.

Also 500 res missing compared to agra is not true, it gives you an instant rax + 240 worth of units, so you are 60c behind comparatively, not even counting the lost gather time for making a rax with karni, which would knock the equation down to 45 maybe.

Yeah and the speed agra gives you+the mapcontrol

[Goodspeed]

We were talking about eco and in that context you are absolutely missing 500 res because you don't want that rax and 2 sepoy you want a cons and market ups.

[Goodspeed]

Ye it definitely is important, i just never really liked the karni, its bonus doesnt last long enough and you are more vulnerable in many ways. It can be useful, but i feel its pretty niche.

Also 500 res missing compared to agra is not true, it gives you an instant rax + 240 worth of units, so you are 60c behind comparatively, not even counting the lost gather time for making a rax with karni, which would knock the equation down to 45 maybe.

Yeah and the speed agra gives you+the mapcontrol

Map control is the only actual downside, but its not necessary in every match up. The meta is becoming more and more timing-based instead of favouring prolonged wars of attrition and youll see that a karni age up gives you the necessary flexibility to adapt to and defend these timings. Sometimes you just dont want to be stuck in colonial with a building you barely use in the first 2 minutes of it because youre too busy getting a cons and market ups which you wouldve had a long time ago if you went 10/10 karni.

Disclaimer: I still think agra is superior in most cases.

[bart331]

are you already high mart?

[Goodspeed]

Am I incoherent?

[deleted_user0]

Any good player would simply adapt when scouting that karni coming up at 2 min, giving them plenty time to prepare an agressive opening. And sure you have 3 diff mm but if you 300 export first you will struggle to get a rax up and units out. Its just so easy to exploit i feel.

There are maybe 3 mus that karni would be viable in, and thats only because karni isnt meta i feel. China jap and ports all have the options to punish such greedy india play. And surely you can react to that as india by delaying market tech and getting units out faster, but in that case you might wonder if karni is really worth it then

Not to mention that you need to make an tp or struggle with xp issues, further straining your wood income, if you start 300 export, i simply dont see you getting anything out