The Ports Struggle

[aoefan4life]

I've been playing Japan for a while and been getting sick of being called a lamer and all that.... just wanted to learn the civ lol. Now I've been trying out ports. I find that ports really struggle big time when facing most civs head on age 2. (no idea how to beat brits age 2 for example lol)

What is the key to playing ports well and do you really have to ff most times? Is doing a 10 muskets defense semi the best option in most cases? Without water does ports just lose? I finally won a single game with that civ against France after being pushed back hard but that was on water -.-

[_DB_]

Ports are nothing special on land. There's only 1% hope to win vs Japan on land. On water too you have only 40% chance to win. Port vs Japan is just unfair MU anyway.

Breezebrothers knows Ports well. He does pike semi FI against Japan. But still it doesn't work 100% of times.

Here's a rec of him playing against Japan.
http://eso-community.net/attachment/download/625

I think musk semi is also a good idea, but Japan just wins this MU
And you should NEVER defend vs Japan, as any civ. The reason why Japan always wins because you give it time. There's no way to beat Japan other than being quick.
If you are in age 4, and Japan is in age 4, there's no way you can win, even with better eco.


Japan only lose for three reasons:
1)Losing to early aggression
2)Being a lot of score behind
3)Being one age behind

[yemshi]

1)Ports lose if they don't have hunts
2)Ports lose in Fortress wars beacuse you spend your food to make vills (but you need to' he prob send 2vill cards)
3) Ports lose in Skirm/Cannon war ( Cassa4)Ports lose in eco wars because other booms are more efficient. (India, Japan,Brit)
5) Ports need time' You can't take this time in 80% of all cases
6) Once up to IV with like 50 vills you start to get rolling. HC, Jinetes and Musketeers (Same as strong as Brit one but just use Jinetes)
7) Ports don't have a real civ bonus.

[Durokan]

I''ve been playing Japan for a while and been getting sick of being called a lamer and all that.... just wanted to learn the civ lol. Now I''ve been trying out ports. I find that ports really struggle big time when facing most civs head on age 2. (no idea how to beat brits age 2 for example lol)

What is the key to playing ports well and do you really have to ff most times? Is doing a 10 muskets defense semi the best option in most cases? Without water does ports just lose? I finally won a single game with that civ against France after being pushed back hard but that was on water -.-

Ports are the weakest civ in the current state of the game. Water ports are way better than non-water ports. I love playing them, but you really have to outplay your opponent to win. (uneven matchups)

[slay3r19]

ports vs russia isn't THAT unfair of a matchup, they both have a similar boom. Also ports vs spain isn't THAT unbalanced, other than those 2, i wouldn't play ports.

[zoom]

1)Ports lose if they don''t have hunts
2)Ports lose in Fortress wars beacuse you spend your food to make vills (but you need to' he prob send 2vill cards)
3) Ports lose in Skirm/Cannon war ( Cassa<'Skirms|Organ<'Falconet
4)Ports lose in eco wars because other booms are more efficient. (India, Japan,Brit)
5) Ports need time' You can''t take this time in 80% of all cases
6) Once up to IV with like 50 vills you start to get rolling. HC, Jinetes and Musketeers (Same as strong as Brit one but just use Jinetes)
7) Ports don''t have a real civ bonus.

I could''ve sworn they got a Covered Wagon with every age-advancement...

[adderbrain5]

1)Ports lose if they dont have hunts
2)Ports lose in Fortress wars beacuse you spend your food to make vills (but you need to' he prob send 2vill cards)
3) Ports lose in Skirm/Cannon war ( Cassa4)Ports lose in eco wars because other booms are more efficient. (India, Japan,Brit)
5) Ports need time' You cant take this time in 80% of all cases
6) Once up to IV with like 50 vills you start to get rolling. HC, Jinetes and Musketeers (Same as strong as Brit one but just use Jinetes)
7) Ports dont have a real civ bonus.

I couldve sworn they got a Covered Wagon with every age-advancement...

I could have sworn they have an OP fishingboom, stupid mm potential and mortars that fire from so far away that u cant even see them and the only dragons really worth heavily investing in and skirma that resist 40 range (op af)

[adderbrain5]

Do you want to know the real ports struggle ? Wait till u 1v1 my iroqois. You'll get to meet Tree, my digital manifestation with a beasting colonial age siege attac (" wait where did I just drop that TC/ tower wagons foundations??? Wait wasn't I just building a tax there wait
WTF???! HACKER CHRATER OMG FML!!!")

[yemshi]

1)Ports lose if they dont have hunts
2)Ports lose in Fortress wars beacuse you spend your food to make vills (but you need to' he prob send 2vill cards)
3) Ports lose in Skirm/Cannon war ( Cassa4)Ports lose in eco wars because other booms are more efficient. (India, Japan,Brit)
5) Ports need time' You cant take this time in 80% of all cases
6) Once up to IV with like 50 vills you start to get rolling. HC, Jinetes and Musketeers (Same as strong as Brit one but just use Jinetes)
7) Ports dont have a real civ bonus.

I couldve sworn they got a Covered Wagon with every age-advancement...

Ofc thats the bonus but you just need to much time to get a real BONUS out of it. You cant afford 3TC boom+units so you have to choose at first. Other civ boni pay off faster and are stronger at the same time.

[yemshi]

I couldve sworn they got a Covered Wagon with every age-advancement...

I could have sworn they have an OP fishingboom, stupid mm potential and mortars that fire from so far away that u cant even see them and the only dragons really worth heavily investing in and skirma that resist 40 range (op af)

MM not gonna save your game. Fishboom is not op but strong.
Mortar is available for kinda like every civ.
Cassa have 50%RR, less dmg and HP

[_venox_]

From what I experienced playing portus, their ff is quite strong: with 3 tcs you will have decent map control and that early 3 tcs have the best and the longest lasting boom potential out of any civ, reaching 99 villagers at [ ( 99 - 21 ) / 3 tcs ] * 25sec = 650 sec = about 11 min starting at minute 8 = at about 19 minutes. Their cassadores aren't worse than skirmisher since they are faster and do more dmg but lose harder to cav. Stopping vill production 1 minute prior to pushing out for map control allows for more units' rather 40 vills and bigger chance of resources than 47 vills and small chance of res, having to gather for mills. After all without resources villagers are quite useless and 15 more vills won't make up for the loss of animals and mines. some walls might come in handy, and goon culv organ might be a nice combo and not too food intense.

[_DB_]

Port vs Russia. Port wins. Russia can't stop a good port player from FFing or even FI-ing with colonel miltia card and both TCs close. A single TC just one-hit kill a strelet and musk and 2-hit kill a cossack.
So it's a fair match up.
I've saw setugen doing naked FI vs constant Darwin's Russia rush.

Spain vs Ports. Actually Spain lose this game. Ports win. Spain FF isn't enough lame to take down a good port player.

Port vs France, it is fair match up but practically and theoretically France win more often in high level.

Port vs Dutch, fair match up.

Port vs Otto. Unfair MU. Still I've a feeling port can theoretically win with colonel militia card. Two TCs with 135 attack one-hit kil a jan and even normal regular TC two-hit kill abus. Practically it's too hard. Just hope otto will FF. Anyway in this MU you always want to FF because nothing in age 2 can counter otto except strong civs like India, Japan etcetra.

Port vs Brits. Don't even try.

Port vs Japan. Don't even try.

Port vs China. Very hard.

Port vs India. Unfair, port can't win unless the guy is not Indialamer. Still India will win you in age 2 and age 3. The only hope is in age 4, which you don't achieve in 90% of games.

Port vs Germany. No idea about this. Fair IMO.

[_venox_]

port loses hard to germans since they can crank out 80-100 pop army at 10-12 minutes while having an even or slightly better economy with 2 and 3 sw and having all the freedom they need, being uncontested and doing damage with a semi ff.

[zoom]

From what I experienced playing portus, their ff is quite strong: with 3 tcs you will have decent map control and that early 3 tcs have the best and the longest lasting boom potential out of any civ, reaching 99 villagers at [ ( 99 - 21 ) / 3 tcs ] * 25sec = 650 sec = about 11 min starting at minute 8 = at about 19 minutes. Their cassadores aren''t worse than skirmisher since they are faster and do more dmg but lose harder to cav. Stopping vill production 1 minute prior to pushing out for map control allows for more units' rather 40 vills and bigger chance of resources than 47 vills and small chance of res, having to gather for mills. After all without resources villagers are quite useless and 15 more vills won''t make up for the loss of animals and mines. some walls might come in handy, and goon culv organ might be a nice combo and not too food intense.

Cassadores do less damage than Skirmishers.

[momuuu]

But cassadores have good RR, so in the battle vs skirms I think they win. Correct me if I'm wrong though.

[_venox_]

It's equal since they also have fewer hitpoints.

[adderbrain5]

I could have sworn they have an OP fishingboom, stupid mm potential and mortars that fire from so far away that u cant even see them and the only dragons really worth heavily investing in and skirma that resist 40 range (op af)

MM not gonna save your game. Fishboom is not op but strong.
Mortar is available for kinda like every civ.
Cassa have 50%RR, less dmg and HP

imo 5o RR makes cass a great unit and the mortars having 50 range is amazing especially on water maps. Ports are the only civ that can challenge my az on sea

[yemshi]

As venocks said' they are about even in skirm vs skirm but they lose much harder to handcav

[adderbrain5]

so we just tested cass vs every kind of skirm in the editor. And just as claimed in my previous posts, cass do overwhelmingly better vs all range units, and beat all other skirms in battle. As for how they do vs cav, who cares, they aren't for fighting cav even in a pinch. And I doubt they get owned that much harder, and if so, I doubt it makes much difference

[_venox_]

Did you actually micro or just let them stand and shot?

[zoom]

so we just tested cass vs every kind of skirm in the editor. And just as claimed in my previous posts, cass do overwhelmingly better vs all range units, and beat all other skirms in battle. As for how they do vs cav, who cares, they aren''t for fighting cav even in a pinch. And I doubt they get owned that much harder, and if so, I doubt it makes much difference

No. You are simply wrong. Here are the facts:

Cassador:
Hitpoints: 87.5 (175 ranged)' hitpoints per cost: ~0.76 (~1.522 ranged)
Attack: ~14.167' attack per cost: ~0.1232
Speed: 4.5

Skirmisher:
Hitpoints: 120 (~171.5 ranged)' hitpoints per cost: ~1.0435 (~1.49 ranged)
Attack: 15' attack per cost: ~0.13
Speed: 4

As you can see, Cassadors don''t even do better than Skirmishers against ranged units, and indeed do vastly worse against all other units. The speed is their only actual boon, as the advantage over Skirmishers in ranged hitpoints isn''t even half as great (in relative term) as the disadvantage in ranged damage ?? which applies to all units except only ranged ones!

Finally, the above does not necessarily constitute an inter-civilization balance issue, but don''t make bullshit claims just because you glanced over in-game resistances of a unit and wish it were true...

[adderbrain5]

nevertheless, despite all your numbers, which I admit im not that good with or interested in, cass still win in the field. Try it yourself. And skirm vs skirm what micro is there to do? I just had them stand and shoot. Even when the opposing skirms get to fire first cass still wins.

[Aizamk]

Be aware in your tests that when you place units in the scenario editor, cassadors get placed at veteran stats by default while skirms have colonial stats, that is likely where you are going wrong. I'm sure I don't need to state it, but a comparative 20% boost to hp and attack makes a huge difference. You'll notice that in zoom's post he has nerfed cassador stats to compensate.

[_venox_]

Compare the villager seconds (VS):
cassador 80f 30c, 80f / 0.84f per sec = 95.24 VS, 30c / 0.6c per sec = 58.33 VS, = 153.57 total.
skirmisher 50f 65c, 50f / 0.84f per sec = 59.52 VS, 65c / 0.6c per sec = 108.33 VS, = 167.85 total.
167.85 VS / 153.57 VS = 1.093, so 9.3% more expensive.

cass: 105 hp 17 dmg 50% rr, 0.684 hp per VS melee, 1,367 hp per VS ranged, 11070 * 10^(-5) dmg per VS
skirm: 144 hp 18 dmg 30% rr, 0.858 hp per VS melee, 1.226 hp per VS ranged, 10724 * 10^(-5) dmg per VS

Cass is faster, has more hp per vs in ranged and more damage per vs
Skirm has more hp per vs in melee (or siege, falconet shots)

Cass wins.