Besteiros upgrade calculation and discussion

hnk97 · Post by **hnk97** » 02 Aug 2015, 21:33

Hey everyone. I wanted to discuss the unique Portuguese church card, Besteiros, which ships 22 Royal Guard-level crossbowmen and upgrades all existed crossbowmen to Royal Guard status. The question is whether it is worth it at a cost of 2400 wood. I decided to try and run some numbers and here's what I've got.

v.s cost of 1 crossbowman (no upgrades)= 127.6
2400 = 4800 villager seconds as wood gathers at 0.5/sec.

Hence, approx. 38 standard crossbowmen can be trained for the same number of v.s instead of having to send the shipment, which also requires a HC card and being in fortress age. The 22 Besteiros are not standard crossbowmen however, and if we consider their hp alone they are worth 22*1.2*1.3=34.3 standard crossbowmen. Alternatively, we can check the results if we take the more likely route of upgrading the Xbows to veteran status (which we would probably do if we decided to mass them). Within 4800 v.s, 32 veteran crossbowmen can be made taking into account the upgrade. 32*1.2=38.2 which is certainly better than making 38 standard Xbows (as the vets have about the same sum hp but more damage).

Value of 22 Besteiros in terms of standard Xbow hp: 22*1.2*1.3= 34.3
Value of 32 Vet Xbow in terms of standard Xbow hp: 32*1.2= 38.2

Objectively it looks like the vet upgrade is better as there are still plenty of v.s for making more Xbow as compared to having them all spent towards wood. On the other hand, depending on how many more Xbows you intend on making over the course of the game, the shipment costs could easily break even. Let me know what you guys think.

Garja · Post by **Garja** » 02 Aug 2015, 22:07

bestieros are guard xbows

_venox_ · Post by **_venox_** » 02 Aug 2015, 23:55

Ship and train Besteiro if you are out of food and / or short on coin.

deleted_user0 · Post by **deleted_user0** » 03 Aug 2015, 00:52

garja wrote:bestieros are guard xbows

Yup, this is why its worth it and ofcourse cuZ with ports u know to win ugonna have 50 vils on wood at some point...

zoom · Post by **zoom** » 03 Aug 2015, 01:05

The "Guard Crossbowman" improvement does not exist and as such this is a solid premium on a unit that is decent enough and costs no wood. I typically wouldn't bother though...

adderbrain5 · Post by **adderbrain5** » 03 Aug 2015, 03:04

They don't seem to be worth it. Frankly I have never been impressed with their stats. The tower and sword riders maybe?

adderbrain5 · Post by **adderbrain5** » 03 Aug 2015, 03:05

umeu wrote:
garja wrote:bestieros are guard xbows

Yup, this is why its worth it and ofcourse cuZ with ports u know to win ugonna have 50 vils on wood at some point...

Haha good point there

Marco1698 · Post by **Marco1698** » 03 Aug 2015, 10:27

adderbrain5 wrote:
umeu wrote:Yup, this is why its worth it and ofcourse cuZ with ports u know to win ugonna have 50 vils on wood at some point...

Haha good point there

yep

yurashic · Post by **yurashic** » 04 Aug 2015, 01:53

They have huge range disadvantage and require 2400 wood stacked + church, idk how they are worth it. Instead of using 2500 wood and shipping the church card I would better use these res to age to industrial and ship 2 heavy cannons.

hnk97 · Post by **hnk97** » 04 Aug 2015, 03:13

2400 wood really is a lot, more than any single upgrade in the game as far as I know.

_venox_ · Post by **_venox_** » 04 Aug 2015, 09:05

It's nice if you have no food or coin to gather elsewhere.

pecelot · Post by **pecelot** » 04 Aug 2015, 09:53

yurashic wrote:They have huge range disadvantage and require 2400 wood stacked + church, idk how they are worth it. Instead of using 2500 wood and shipping the church card I would better use these res to age to industrial and ship 2 heavy cannons.

this:

umeu wrote:Yup, this is why its worth it and ofcourse cuZ with ports u know to win ugonna have 50 vils on wood at some point...

and this:

venox wrote:Its nice if you have no food or coin to gather elsewhere.

deleted_user0 · Post by **deleted_user0** » 04 Aug 2015, 14:32

yurashic wrote:They have huge range disadvantage and require 2400 wood stacked + church, idk how they are worth it. Instead of using 2500 wood and shipping the church card I would better use these res to age to industrial and ship 2 heavy cannons.

Sometimes all you can gather is wood. And they are really strong units, kinda comparable to the punch old han pack. A big mass of xbows really shouldnt be under estated and often its better to switch to archaic when you run out of res than to switch to plantations.

hnk97 · Post by **hnk97** » 05 Aug 2015, 01:59

Since it looks like there is some disagreement I added a poll (probably should've done that from the start, my bad).

gibson · Post by **gibson** » 05 Aug 2015, 02:03

yurashic wrote:They have huge range disadvantage and require 2400 wood stacked + church, idk how they are worth it. Instead of using 2500 wood and shipping the church card I would better use these res to age to industrial and ship 2 heavy cannons.

this tech is only available in industrial I believe

pecelot · Post by **pecelot** » 05 Aug 2015, 07:31

they are available in fortress, you get an access to black riders in industrial

adderbrain5 · Post by **adderbrain5** » 06 Aug 2015, 13:16

I played this 3v3 yesterday and I played like a total noob. I got triple team and the team mate called Heka really thought this would save our team. He's like " OMFG wait!!! Don't quit!!! Just wait ! Wait!!! " as my TC is surrounded and full of Vila he's like " I got guArd Xbiow! Don't quit!"

.......

Two minutes later his 150 hp " guard Xbiow" beisteiro get bitch pwnd by a few colonial huss. Rotfl wit a joke

sergyou · Post by **sergyou** » 07 Aug 2015, 13:21

Are 24 besteiros better than 11 blackriders ?
Besteiros cost 2.4k blackriders cost 2k

deleted_user0 · Post by **deleted_user0** » 07 Aug 2015, 13:44

I wonder if its viable to play a prolonged bow pike huss and then switch to mass bow goon huss with this guard up and arsenal ups. Gonna try it when im back.

Goodspeed · Post by **Goodspeed** » 07 Aug 2015, 14:04

Hang on. Bestieros is a fortress tech right? You mean bow pike huss and then age for bestieros at some point?
It's definitely strong when you're out of gold to switch to full mills + wood for bestieros and make some goons on the side. As Ports you can find yourself in this situation pretty often, I remember using this tech a lot when I played Ports before FP.

deleted_user0 · Post by **deleted_user0** » 07 Aug 2015, 14:18

Ye bow pike colo then age around 10 or 12 mins. Add huss in colo or fort if needed

Garja · Post by **Garja** » 07 Aug 2015, 14:46

Anyway, bestiero tech costs too much on tad.

_venox_ · Post by **_venox_** » 07 Aug 2015, 14:47

That is when the 10 xbow fortress card becomes stronger than the 7 cassadores.

Papist · Post by **Papist** » 07 Aug 2015, 15:57

I'm trying to imagine a 2v2 in which Spain and Port are on the same team, Port has sent that tech and Spain has sent archaic inf training. Besteiro/Tercio for the win!

cedarfarms · Post by **cedarfarms** » 07 Aug 2015, 16:00

adderbrain5 wrote:I played this 3v3 yesterday and I played like a total noob. I got triple team and the team mate called Heka really thought this would save our team. He''s like " OMFG wait!!! Don''t quit!!! Just wait ! Wait!!! " as my TC is surrounded and full of Vila he''s like " I got guArd Xbiow! Don''t quit!"

.......

Two minutes later his 150 hp " guard Xbiow" beisteiro get bitch pwnd by a few colonial huss. Rotfl wit a joke

hahahhahah HEKA, gottta love HEKA

ESOC

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