Dragoons vs musks

mnogud · Post by **mnogud** » 03 Aug 2015, 11:39

have seen many brit players who do musk/lbow semi prefer making musks in fortress as anticav over dragoons... whats the advantage of having musk over goons for brits?

_venox_ · Post by **_venox_** » 03 Aug 2015, 11:54

You have strong infantry units.

deleted_user0 · Post by **deleted_user0** » 03 Aug 2015, 12:03

They have more staying power vs melee units, which makes them better at protecting fragile units such as artillery. Its easier on your macro because you need 2 raxes instead of rax stable so you can easily mass whichever unit you need to balance your army. They are cheaper in vilseconds, 2 for one goon. You can mass them in colo so you can have them preupgraded and massed. More siege

Cons obviously are that they have to get in close to deal with cav, are slower so dont catch raids as well, dont have the range upgrade in arsenal. They dont have shadowtech.

In the end goons are superior but in some cases musk can be the convenient choice. And as sepoy ghurkha, ashi yumi or jan abus show, a hi li combo can be very potent and hard to deal with, but you kinda need a strong cavalry unit to finish the combo

Marco1698 · Post by **Marco1698** » 03 Aug 2015, 12:04

venox wrote:You have strong infantry units.

same opinion. Also they are even cheap

adderbrain5 · Post by **adderbrain5** » 03 Aug 2015, 13:14

There is also The fact that britts have so many great upgrade cards for muskets

deleted_user0 · Post by **deleted_user0** » 03 Aug 2015, 13:21

They have as many ups for cav/dragoons

_venox_ · Post by **_venox_** » 03 Aug 2015, 13:33

The British are the only civilisation with 3 home city upgrades for dragoons. Also they also upgrade hussars at the same time.

yemshi · Post by **yemshi** » 03 Aug 2015, 16:12

venox wrote:The British are the only civilisation with 3 home city upgrades for dragoons. Also they also upgrade hussars at the same time.

You get an (useless) gren upgrade too^^

yurashic · Post by **yurashic** » 03 Aug 2015, 17:05

Musketeers are good with cannons, dragoons are good with longbows.

_venox_ · Post by **_venox_** » 03 Aug 2015, 18:04

You need something to block melee units if you go lb goon, best would be hussars or even pikemen. Blocking melee units and not allowing them to kill your longbowmen is important. Else a power spike and melee based army composition could surround you and decimate your units really quickly.

pecelot · Post by **pecelot** » 03 Aug 2015, 19:24

In late fortress musks aren't able to deal with artillery, dragoons are quite useful however in that kind of situations.

_venox_ · Post by **_venox_** » 03 Aug 2015, 19:50

You will lose too many dragoons. In late fortress you need culverins against artillery.

pecelot · Post by **pecelot** » 03 Aug 2015, 20:06

Meh, you know how culvs work, they are slow, trainable from a 300w building and cost 500 res. You can just suicide some of them by surrounding enemy's cannons quickly and putting them into melee mode, while your entire army may focus opponent's army. Recently I found out that goons are the best choice against Port late game combo: 20 range goons + HC.

_venox_ · Post by **_venox_** » 03 Aug 2015, 20:20

3 Goons are worth about 1 culverin, so if you lose more than 3 goons it wasn't worth suiciding them but rather getting a culv out which can handle artillery all the time, if you protect it correctly.

yurashic · Post by **yurashic** » 03 Aug 2015, 20:59

Just no. Nothing counters artillery better than culverins. They are totally worth it and you should not hesistate to make them.

Making your own goons vs port late game combo is a bad idea - his goons outrange yours and heavy cannons have so much hitpoints that you will not kill them without culverins. You will never land a single hand attack on his cannons because he will block, and even if you will, it is totally not worth it.

_venox_ · Post by **_venox_** » 03 Aug 2015, 21:05

Longbowmen, walls and culverines ftw.

Garja · Post by **Garja** » 03 Aug 2015, 21:22

yurashic wrote:Just no. Nothing counters artillery better than culverins. They are totally worth it and you should not hesistate to make them.

Making your own goons vs port late game combo is a bad idea - his goons outrange yours and heavy cannons have so much hitpoints that you will not kill them without culverins. You will never land a single hand attack on his cannons because he will block, and even if you will, it is totally not worth it.I

I wouldn''t mirror port goons obviously, but in general if one players makes full goons while the other has goons and cannons I''m pretty sure the full goon wins.

Jaeger · Post by **Jaeger** » 03 Aug 2015, 22:12

yurashic wrote:Just no. Nothing counters artillery better than culverins. They are totally worth it and you should not hesistate to make them.

Making your own goons vs port late game combo is a bad idea - his goons outrange yours and heavy cannons have so much hitpoints that you will not kill them without culverins. You will never land a single hand attack on his cannons because he will block, and even if you will, it is totally not worth it.

No, goons are good vs a port FI. If you make culverins your army is slow and you actually give him a chance to snipe them. If you mass like 30 goons you just go in there and one hit the heavy cannons and then theres nothing he can do about your 25 skirms.

momuuu · Post by **momuuu** » 04 Aug 2015, 00:37

With cards, brit goons = port goons except for range.

Goons are generally superior because of the utility they provide. If you have goons, every raid your opponent attempts is basically a suicide mission. They also do a better job at countering cav and dont die as hard to skirms as musks do.

_venox_ · Post by **_venox_** » 04 Aug 2015, 09:07

As the British it's better to go for longbowmen + yeomen behind walls than goons.

pecelot · Post by **pecelot** » 04 Aug 2015, 09:27

Notice how quickly those 20 range goons snipe one culv. You don't really want to have more than 3 culvs at the same time because they are useless if the opponent's cannons are gone. Goons and heavy cannons simply annihilite lbs + culvs with no walls and you cannot really fight behind them forever. Port goons have only one HP an attack upgrade from HC while Brits have 3 so I wouldn't say it's not worth suiciding a couple in this kind of situations, since HC are slow to train and are really expensive in terms of factory seconds.

yemshi · Post by **yemshi** » 04 Aug 2015, 09:35

Musketeer has 50 posts, Dragoon 200

_venox_ · Post by **_venox_** » 04 Aug 2015, 09:54

Musketeers:
+ strong fire power
+ can block melee units
+ can be upgraded from the HC
+ sometimes leftover from colonial
+ medium against cavalry
- food intense unit
- more susceptible to artillery
- slow

Dragoons:
- no big fire power
- can't block melee units well
+ can be upgraded from the HC
+ hard counter to heavy cavalry
+ balanced resource cost
+ possibility to kill artillery
=> less susceptible to artillery
+ fast

So it depends on how much food you have, if you have some leftover musketeers, if you already sent the 2 colonial musketeer upgrades, if your enemy goes for a melee to short ranged army composition and if your enemy has strong cavalry units or a quick way to get a big cavalry mass together.

The biggest indicator for me personally is the amount of food I have followed by the army composition of my enemy.

adderbrain5 · Post by **adderbrain5** » 04 Aug 2015, 23:28

venox wrote:The British are the only civilisation with 3 home city upgrades for dragoons. Also they also upgrade hussars at the same time.

it''s a good point but what about thin red line that makes four

adderbrain5 · Post by **adderbrain5** » 04 Aug 2015, 23:30

umeu wrote:They have as many ups for cav/dragoons

nope! It''s four for musk if u do advanced church

ESOC

Top Live Streams

Legacy AoE3