Why don't people make cuirs early in french mirrors?

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United States of America _H2O
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Why don't people make cuirs early in french mirrors?

Post by _H2O »

I think I commented on this in the garja game.
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Why don't people make cuirs early in french mirrors?

Post by Jaeger »

h2o wrote:I think I commented on this in the garja game.
Exactly, you commented "Whoever makes cuirs first wins" XD but then why not make them as soon as you reach fortress?
Also, making cav seems to be pretty good for german early so i dont see why not for other civs, who have better cav units anyway
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Why don't people make cuirs early in french mirrors?

Post by _H2O »

the thing is the moment that I said that was the moment at which you were correct to make curs. Its a very common pr 35 mistake to lose all your goons in goon vs skirm when you cant afford to have no anticav. Hand cav are usually the best unit to reinforce with because if you win the fight you clean up.

Since curs are more expensive and since hand cav is not strong until after you have a chance to clean many goons, you shouldnt really start hand cav. That is just asking to get out poked.
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Why don't people make cuirs early in french mirrors?

Post by Jaeger »

h2o wrote:the thing is the moment that I said that was the moment at which you were correct to make curs. Its a very common pr 35 mistake to lose all your goons in goon vs skirm when you cant afford to have no anticav. Hand cav are usually the best unit to reinforce with because if you win the fight you clean up.

Since curs are more expensive and since hand cav is not strong until after you have a chance to clean many goons, you shouldnt really start hand cav. That is just asking to get out poked.
If you keep constant skirm production tho and you still get outpoked it means they are loosing their goons. And about cleaning many goons thing, can''t you do it anytime? You go in with cuirs, goons come, you shoot them and cuirs go back, etc. Everybody knows that if you go pure skirm cav vs skirm goon cav you lose, but you can have 5 goons of your own too (or as many as you need)
last time i cryed was because i stood on Lego
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Why don't people make cuirs early in french mirrors?

Post by aoefan4life »

h2o wrote:the thing is the moment that I said that was the moment at which you were correct to make curs. Its a very common pr 35 mistake to lose all your goons in goon vs skirm when you cant afford to have no anticav. Hand cav are usually the best unit to reinforce with because if you win the fight you clean up.

Since curs are more expensive and since hand cav is not strong until after you have a chance to clean many goons, you shouldnt really start hand cav. That is just asking to get out poked.
Is the problem with losing goons in skirms battles the lack of unit control groups? It seems a PR 35 would know to keep their goons at range so it must be a simple micro mistake?

Another question. How important is unit control groups instead of drag boxing and clicking?
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Why don't people make cuirs early in french mirrors?

Post by _venox_ »

Unit control is really important' without good unit control you will just lose units for free. Drag boxing can be important to kill the enemy goons the fastest way possible, so your quick cuirassier switch allows you to just win right there because you created an imbalance in army composition that favours you heavily.

I am not a pr 35 player by any means, but I have had my fair share of French mirrors over the years. Even though I went for the 8 hussar semi ff almost always, the only way I won in fortress is because my enemy lost many goons for free and I saw a chance to send 3 cuirassiers and train 5 and win with just those alone. People miss the important point when you have to switch to cuirassiers and when you don't want to use the extra firing power of dragoons (since they then can be focused and picked off).
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Why don't people make cuirs early in french mirrors?

Post by Marco1698 »

venox wrote:Unit control is really important' without good unit control you will just lose units for free. Drag boxing can be important to kill the enemy goons the fastest way possible, so your quick cuirassier switch allows you to just win right there because you created an imbalance in army composition that favours you heavily.

I am not a pr 35 player by any means, but I have had my fair share of French mirrors over the years. Even though I went for the 8 hussar semi ff almost always, the only way I won in fortress is because my enemy lost many goons for free and I saw a chance to send 3 cuirassiers and train 5 and win with just those alone. People miss the important point when you have to switch to cuirassiers and when you don''t want to use the extra firing power of dragoons (since they then can be focused and picked off).

for a while I thought 3 cuirassiers were a bad shipment
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Why don't people make cuirs early in french mirrors?

Post by _venox_ »

It is 900 resources and a lot of training time.
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Why don't people make cuirs early in french mirrors?

Post by _H2O »

Hand cab shipments are only good as a surprise. U send it while ur training 5 to make 8 as a surprise.

In Starcraft broodwar the power of Zerg was their ability to tech switch quickly. Cav are the surprise tech switch of this game. And u can see how impactful they are as a surprise.
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Why don't people make cuirs early in french mirrors?

Post by WickedCossack »

diarouga wrote:
ovi12 wrote:Shouldnt you always make them in german mirror tho? If you do and they dont you auto win, and if you both do oh well.
Because skirm/uhlan>'uhlan/ww
If you want anti cav, just send brs.
WW are not great but if you go by total resources uhlan/ww does indeed beat uhlan/skirm (try it in scenario with micro). The WW hate train has gone too far !
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Why don't people make cuirs early in french mirrors?

Post by adderbrain5 »

h2o wrote:Hand cab shipments are only good as a surprise. U send it while ur training 5 to make 8 as a surprise.

In Starcraft broodwar the power of Zerg was their ability to tech switch quickly. Cav are the surprise tech switch of this game. And u can see how impactful they are as a surprise.

good use of the word impactful. The other day I was in a team game. Opposing Russia did some crazy all in and is sieging my tv with like 20 stre and a bunch of maces. Out pop my 5 cossack like all in the middle of their mass so the Cossack can''t even move. I put them on trample damage and gg all stre mace dead to the last. Didn''t lose a single Cossack. Can''t tell you how many times I''ve done the same with Iroquois renegade French 5 cuir
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Why don't people make cuirs early in french mirrors?

Post by fei123456 »

uhlan cant do everything. if you only spam uhlan you will get swiped by age 3 china.
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Why don't people make cuirs early in french mirrors?

Post by [Armag] diarouga »

paul wrote:uhlan cant do everything. if you only spam uhlan you will get swiped by age 3 china.
Wrong
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Why don't people make cuirs early in french mirrors?

Post by gibson »

diarouga wrote:
paul wrote:uhlan cant do everything. if you only spam uhlan you will get swiped by age 3 china.
Wrong

nah 11 sword plus Manchu shipment alone will wipe uhlan out the ass
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Why don't people make cuirs early in french mirrors?

Post by [Armag] diarouga »

gibson wrote:
diarouga wrote:Wrong
nah 11 sword plus Manchu shipment alone will wipe uhlan out the ass
You wont have the gold for mandchus and 11 swords wont beat 15 vet uhlans.
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Why don't people make cuirs early in french mirrors?

Post by gibson »

diarouga wrote:
gibson wrote:nah 11 sword plus Manchu shipment alone will wipe uhlan out the ass
You wont have the gold for mandchus and 11 swords wont beat 15 vet uhlans.

I dont know the math but fighting 11 swords vs 15 uhlan the uhlan might win with like 5 hp worth of uhlan alive still good trade for China imo

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