TP meta?

[Jaeger]

In a mirror, making a TP is considered good and you can survive if you build 1 TP and your enemy doesn't build any. Does that also mean that if your enemy builds a TP you can survive by building 2? And if your enemy follows you and builds 2, you can build 3? etc.

[_venox_]

It depends on how many tps are on the map but if you make more tps than your enemy aging up will hurt you more since the enemy can kill more stuff by following you later.

[Jaeger]

It depends on how many tps are on the map but if you make more tps than your enemy aging up will hurt you more since the enemy can kill more stuff by following you later.

I didnt say anything about ageup

[_venox_]

But I told you what the possible consequences are...

[[Armag] diarouga]

That's not always a good idea because since you'll be outmassed you will possibly loose your tp.

[zoom]

Your post just makes absolutely no sense.

[Garja]

TP race is pretty useless in most of cases. 1 TP generally boost enough, 2tps is somehow good for Germans and in case you thinking of stagecoach. More than that is just for stagecoach.

[Jaeger]

Your post just makes absolutely no sense.

read it again then

[_DB_]

I think 2 TPs are a cheat for Spain. You don't get idle HC time after age 2 onwards lol.

For other civs, 1 TP is enough. The other 200w can be invested in 2 houses or market tech or a military building or else.

[Goodspeed]

In a mirror, making a TP is considered good and you can survive if you build 1 TP and your enemy doesn''t build any. Does that also mean that if your enemy builds a TP you can survive by building 2? And if your enemy follows you and builds 2, you can build 3? etc.

In almost all cases, yes. Don''t listen to people who tell you 1 TP is "enough", for the life of me I will never understand their reasoning. A TP gets you faster shipments, 2 TPs get you even faster shipments it''s simple math. In a mirror when both players do the same build that extra TP is going to win you the game. Look at basically any mirror where 1 player builds 2 TPs and the other builds 1' the guy with 2 is just ahead in shipments all game which gives him a lot of momentum. Getting that 2nd, 3rd and so on fortress unit shipment a minute+ faster for the price of reaching fortress 10 seconds later? Total no brainer!
People are always sceptical about changes in the meta and while this one has been going on for a while, TPs are magically still underrated.

[Jaeger]

In a mirror, making a TP is considered good and you can survive if you build 1 TP and your enemy doesnt build any. Does that also mean that if your enemy builds a TP you can survive by building 2? And if your enemy follows you and builds 2, you can build 3? etc.

In almost all cases, yes. Dont listen to people who tell you 1 TP is "enough", for the life of me I will never understand their reasoning. A TP gets you faster shipments, 2 TPs get you even faster shipments its simple math. In a mirror when both players do the same build that extra TP is going to win you the game. Look at basically any mirror where 1 player builds 2 TPs and the other builds 1' the guy with 2 is just ahead in shipments all game which gives him a lot of momentum. Getting that 2nd, 3rd and so on fortress unit shipment a minute+ faster for the price of reaching fortress 10 seconds later? Total no brainer!
People are always sceptical about changes in the meta and while this one has been going on for a while, TPs are magically still underrated.

Yeah I agree. I think the only problem is tho that maybe on some maps like deccan, 2 or 3 TPs (especially with 1 TP age 1) will probably give you like 3-4 back to back shipments anyway, so if you make more TPs than that your opponent might be able to push you in the window where you both have back to back shipments

[_venox_]

Staying a bit longer in colonial and setting up a stage coach tp economy can be really strong.

[Garja]

You can't keep making tps at will. Not only they cost quite some wood and the pay off is marginally diminishing, but also the game isn't just a maximization problem, there is a lot more than that.
For example dropping an outpost in the middle as Germans or French after you have already a TP is far more beneficial than a 2nd tp, in terms of controlling the game.
Sure a 2nd tp as part of your build order is good if the game is such that you and your opponent are on a greed race. At the same time, however, chopping extra 200w for a 2nd TP is just silly as it imply skipping other important stuff. So usually when you make a 2nd TP it is from 700w and it is when you don't expect military interactions for a while.

[Marco1698]

Nice thread

[Marco1698]

I like read reply here since I have got these doubts too

[momuuu]

Id say that the optimum is somewhere around 1 or 2 tps. Because the more xp you get, the less xp will be worth (since you require more xp for a shipment). There is definitely a mathematical optimum, but maybe TPs are so good that they peak at 8 or 9 tps.

[deleted_user0]

In a mirror, making a TP is considered good and you can survive if you build 1 TP and your enemy doesnt build any. Does that also mean that if your enemy builds a TP you can survive by building 2? And if your enemy ?follows you and builds 2, you can build 3? etc.

In almost all cases, yes. Dont listen to people who tell you 1 TP is "enough", for the life of me I will never understand their reasoning. A TP gets you faster shipments, 2 TPs get you even faster shipments its simple math. In a mirror when both players do the same build that extra TP is going to win you the game. Look at basically any mirror where 1 player builds 2 TPs and the other builds 1' the guy with 2 is just ahead in shipments all game which gives him a lot of momentum. Getting that 2nd, 3rd and so on fortress unit shipment a minute+ faster for the price of reaching fortress 10 seconds later? Total no brainer!
People are always sceptical about changes in the meta and while this one has been going on for a while, TPs are magically still underrated.

Sounds good on paper, not so much in practice. I tried to make a tp in brit mirror for example, the result of less manors and bit delayed ups snowballed into having alot less smoother build. And in the end my xp gain was quite insignificant. I got my shipments perhaps a minute early, but because my production was lower i never could force the issue.

India mirror has the same delicate issue with market ups, and getting your tp in trans will not get you a much bigger xp advantage than getting it with 600w but, your eco is worse due to having to skip a vill and delaying market ups. Ofc can say add a 2nd tp with 600w, but u can never defend it due to worse eco.

Upgrading the tp though, that one is awesome and is always worth it if you can defend the route for 2-3 minutes. You get instant tp income from the upgrade and you can keep the tps on xp to double the xp rate almost. Or put on wood to have like an instand 8v boom if you control half the route

[Goodspeed]

In almost all cases, yes. Dont listen to people who tell you 1 TP is "enough", for the life of me I will never understand their reasoning. A TP gets you faster shipments, 2 TPs get you even faster shipments its simple math. In a mirror when both players do the same build that extra TP is going to win you the game. Look at basically any mirror where 1 player builds 2 TPs and the other builds 1' the guy with 2 is just ahead in shipments all game which gives him a lot of momentum. Getting that 2nd, 3rd and so on fortress unit shipment a minute+ faster for the price of reaching fortress 10 seconds later? Total no brainer!
People are always sceptical about changes in the meta and while this one has been going on for a while, TPs are magically still underrated.

Sounds good on paper, not so much in practice. I tried to make a tp in brit mirror for example, the result of less manors and bit delayed ups snowballed into having alot less smoother build. And in the end my xp gain was quite insignificant. I got my shipments perhaps a minute early, but because my production was lower i never could force the issue.

India mirror has the same delicate issue with market ups, and getting your tp in trans will not get you a much bigger xp advantage than getting it with 600w but, your eco is worse due to having to skip a vill and delaying market ups. Ofc can say add a 2nd tp with 600w, but u can never defend it due to worse eco.

Upgrading the tp though, that one is awesome and is always worth it if you can defend the route for 2-3 minutes. You get instant tp income from the upgrade and you can keep the tps on xp to double the xp rate almost. Or put on wood to have like an instand 8v boom if you control half the route

Your loss. Ill just sit here and wait to be proven right like always. Brits are somewhat of an exception by the way, they are a boom civ which means they dont have the means to protect TPs, plus they want to be spending money on vills. Its the civs that dont have solid means of booming during transition (so every civ except Brit, Jap, Dutch) and have the means to protect them that should be building TPs. And yes this includes India, in fact its madness not to build a trans TP as India considering the insane strength of their shipments. No need to cut a vill. Market ups? Sure, just get both. You are making 1.5 less military unit in early colonial in exchange for a significantly faster build, which is a trade I will easily take in any match up.

[Garja]

You can't get both market ups and tp in transition with india and remotely think you're safe doing that. And not because you get 1.5 less units out but because you simply don't have enough resources to do that unless you want your last market tech finished at 8 mins with no resources to call mm at any point.

[SoldieR]

The value of shipments is much less once 700w and 700c are sent

[Jaeger]

You can''t get both market ups and tp in transition with india and remotely think you''re safe doing that. And not because you get 1.5 less units out but because you simply don''t have enough resources to do that unless you want your last market tech finished at 8 mins with no resources to call mm at any point.

If u get TP or market in transition and then the other one from 600w youre totally fine if u scout. Ofc vs rush you can''t get as many market upgrades straight away because of TP, but TP also gets you 300e earleir for huss and mm

[deleted_user0]

Sounds good on paper, not so much in practice. I tried to make a tp in brit mirror for example, the result of less manors and bit delayed ups snowballed into having alot less smoother build. And in the end my xp gain was quite insignificant. I got my shipments perhaps a minute early, but because my production was lower i never could force the issue.

India mirror has the same delicate issue with market ups, and getting your tp in trans will not get you a much bigger xp advantage than getting it with 600w but, your eco is worse due to having to skip a vill and delaying market ups. Ofc can say add a 2nd tp with 600w, but u can never defend it due to worse eco.

Upgrading the tp though, that one is awesome and is always worth it if you can defend the route for 2-3 minutes. You get instant tp income from the upgrade and you can keep the tps on xp to double the xp rate almost. Or put on wood to have like an instand 8v boom if you control half the route

Your loss. Ill just sit here and wait to be proven right like always. Brits are somewhat of an exception by the way, they are a boom civ which means they dont have the means to protect TPs, plus they want to be spending money on vills. Its the civs that dont have solid means of booming during transition (so every civ except Brit, Jap, Dutch) and have the means to protect them that should be building TPs. And yes this includes India, in fact its madness not to build a trans TP as India considering the insane strength of their shipments. No need to cut a vill. Market ups? Sure, just get both. You are making 1.5 less military unit in early colonial in exchange for a significantly faster build, which is a trade I will easily take in any match up.

Lol such bs, no need to get arrogant just cuz u wrote a guide... i was using tps for all civs on nilla before u wrote your guide. You are not the only one who know how they work. But you only theorize, and you havent played the games apparantly where you were punished for investing too much into tps

And regarding india, in several india mirrors i just found myself behind because of investing into that early tp while they just got it 1 round later and had a much smoother build. The fact that i had 3 shipments in a row doesnt matter so much because they had 2 in a row and a 3rd 30 sec later. Such things dont make a difference... Ofc the difference between tp and no tp is huge for india, and i would prefer to get an early tp before age as india with 400w every time. But the difference between getting a tp asap or in trans, or with first crates in colo is not THAT big

[Garja]

You cant get both market ups and tp in transition with india and remotely think youre safe doing that. And not because you get 1.5 less units out but because you simply dont have enough resources to do that unless you want your last market tech finished at 8 mins with no resources to call mm at any point.

If u get TP or market in transition and then the other one from 600w youre totally fine if u scout. Ofc vs rush you cant get as many market upgrades straight away because of TP, but TP also gets you 300e earleir for huss and mm

Yes, from 600w. thats what everyone does, but not just by chopping wood, let alone in the transition.
Whether its better to make tp or market first is really situation dependant. Sometimes the extra shipment is better, sometimes you get more efficiency by squezing the upgrades earlier. Also market upgrades take time to being researched and a xp treasure cna make up for the extra tp passage anyway.

[_DB_]

As India actually, building a TP on a tp map rather than a market is more worth as you get your shipment + 1 vil faster which is superior to a market upgrade. You can make market + TP while aging, and research them later. You'll still be able to get the 50-50-50 one with little idle TC time.

I'm not saying theoretically, it's practically tested from me since months. Transition TP>'>'>'>'Transition market + upgrades. Adding market after 1 min doesn't really hurt you very much.

[SoldieR]

Why would u do transition tp as India... It delays market ups and you have a shipment upon age up without to. I wouldn't make tp unless I'm fine to have no idle market time