German FF details

[_venox_]

TP > extra market ups if Germans go without 3sw.

[gibson]

Even if Germans go for an ff they will always find ways to raid with their free 2 uhlans per shipment and raiding isn''t limited to the 6-8 minute mark, he can raid in fortress too. Also that Ovi wins games even without excessive raiding is evidence for raiding not being the ONLY way Germans win. Sometimes on some maps you will almost never find a way to raid and trade efficiently, so it''s better to just scout the hunts your enemy has to take soon and crush your enemy with your fortress spam.

If he never raids and never looks to raid he is winning games because he is more skilled then his opponent. Look at any top player they almost always raid because the payoff for a good raid is worth the risk of loosing your raiding units.

[Kaiserklein]

TP >' extra market ups if Germans go without 3sw.

Yeah but who would FF as German without a tp anyway ? And if you talk about a 2nd TP instead of steel traps, the problem is it will have to be out of your base unlike the first one on many maps, so you will just build it in early colonial and it might get destroyed like 1 min after which isn''t a good deal at all. Meanwhile your market is in your base, and anyway once steel traps is researched it can''t be destroyed lol

[Jaeger]

Ofc its good, its just not an essential part at all of how germany wins games. When I was like MS I was asking players why I would loose, all the captains would tell me that I need to do small 2 uhlan raids everywhere because thats how germany wins games which is totally not true.

so how else are you gonna win games against a similar skill opponent? You have no musk, uhlan are subpar, you have no goons and war wagons arent viable til late game. Skirm uhlan is the most common German combo and it just flat out looses to mass Hussar. If you dont raid, you will literally only win games by being better then the other player.

If someone goes mass hussar, you go mass vet uhlan and win. Combos like musk huss win on paper vs skirm uhlan, and in practice too, but in a real game with mm, faster reinforcements, tc fire, and shipments the german player usually wins. Unless its french, then thats too much musk huss too early for Germany. And ofc u raid in transition, but u shouldnt expect to kill any vills vs a good player. The raiding there is just meant to make sure he keeps his army in his base to defend

[Jaeger]

Ovi steel traps will slow you down, even if you manage to age up in the same time with it (which might be hard with a 100w start for example. You have to show me this), simply because you need to gather 2500 food with steel traps if you want it to pay off. Of course it''s not that much, but still in early fortress it means you''re slowed down. Maybe only by 1 unit, but when you have only 1 shipment + mm + 1 batch of units out to fight under your tc it can make a difference.

Plus if you get harassed and aren''t able to collect much food (which might happen when you straight ff, you are so defenseless), steel traps are even worse because they will pay off really slowly, when your resources are so precious...

Tho as french i would make steel traps even for straight ff, because their early eco is stronger (especially if the german doesn''t ship 3 sw) and because units require more food than the german ones.

Actually i think its more like 1700f sonce st is 20 percent. So before st finishes you collect about 300f. You need 900 more to age up, 500 more for 5 vills, and 250 more for 5 uhlans. Thats 1650, so it should have payed itself off right around the time you start aging which is why it doesnt slow u down to age 3 . Tho i agree that if youre being pressured a lot its probably not good.

[Jaeger]

Even if Germans go for an ff they will always find ways to raid with their free 2 uhlans per shipment and raiding isnt limited to the 6-8 minute mark, he can raid in fortress too. Also that Ovi wins games even without excessive raiding is evidence for raiding not being the ONLY way Germans win. Sometimes on some maps you will almost never find a way to raid and trade efficiently, so its better to just scout the hunts your enemy has to take soon and crush your enemy with your fortress spam.

If he never raids and never looks to raid he is winning games because he is more skilled then his opponent. Look at any top player they almost always raid because the payoff for a good raid is worth the risk of loosing your raiding units.

On maps like hudson bay or bengal theres like no way to escape with your cav. Raiding whe both of u guys are skirmishing is good, but if nothing is going on around the map and you randomly send 5 cav to raid (like how so many ppl think germany should do) u will lose them for sure (unless enemy has zero Cav). Thats especially true on maps like hudson bay and manchuria. I would only send like 1 low hp uhlan to scout in those cases. Im not pro or anything thats just my opinion. When you see players like aiz and bs winning by raiding hard i think its just because they are way better at multitasking that their opponent. Plus, catching raids requires more attention than raiding