dutch vs india

[lemmings121]

Yesterday on ro16 stream there was a dutch vs india game, where the chat all agreed that India destroys, annihilates and obliterates dutch at same lvl of play...
And I disagree, imo it's dutch favored...


what do you guys think?

[momuuu]

I played this mach up a few times with Bart and he consistently recks me by playing really aggressively. I feel like you can consistently deny Dutch to get to fort. Especially since they can't use the skirm range advantage vs gurka.

[lemmings121]

I played this mach up a few times with Bart and he consistently recks me by playing really aggressively. I feel like you can consistently deny Dutch to get to fort. Especially since they can''t use the skirm range advantage vs gurka.

why not? 20>'18

[momuuu]

I played this mach up a few times with Bart and he consistently recks me by playing really aggressively. I feel like you can consistently deny Dutch to get to fort. Especially since they cant use the skirm range advantage vs gurka.

why not? 20>'18

oh, I thought gurka had 20 range aswell haha. then I guess its doable, but still really hard. They can just do a quick timing with those imba explorers and some sepoy and then a secondary timing with sowars, and with that destroy your skirm force, after which their gurka transition makes you sad.

[_venox_]

India is like Dutch but better in almost all aspects and has the skirm lancer goon composition in fortress with 3 upgrades.

[adderbrain5]

Hopeless

[Jaeger]

Yeah, and even age 3 vs age 3, india destroys dutch. Just cant slowroll it in age 2 like the guy yesterday tho

[_DB_]

Dutch will win if it forces India to stay age 2 and goes age 3 itself without much harm. Just hope India guy won't lame, then you must win majority of games. If he lames, maybe very very hard to win.

I saw a rec of H2O playing this MU as Dutch vs an India lamer, and H2O beat India age 2 with Dutch age 2.

You can see the rec here-
http://www.mediafire.com/download/lpmm2 ... a.age3Yrec

[lemmings121]

Yeah, and even age 3 vs age 3, india destroys dutch. Just cant slowroll it in age 2 like the guy yesterday tho

But I dont think getting age3 is that easy as india, is it? their standard semi is kinda slow/awkward..

I dont think the way marechal played is that bad, he tried to have a bigger mass (with better micro and the 2 camel upgrade cards, could have worked imo), instead of agging, since agging leads to a smaller army, and some long time before all veterans upgrades gets done..

Maybe an india semi, starting with Karni? idk, I havent met with many dutch players to try stuff out..

[britishmusketeer]

Yeah, and even age 3 vs age 3, india destroys dutch. Just cant slowroll it in age 2 like the guy yesterday tho

But I dont think getting age3 is that easy as india, is it? their standard semi is kinda slow/awkward..

I dont think the way marechal played is that bad, he tried to have a bigger mass (with better micro and the 2 camel upgrade cards, could have worked imo), instead of agging, since agging leads to a smaller army, and some long time before all veterans upgrades gets done..

Maybe an india semi, starting with Karni? idk, I havent met with many dutch players to try stuff out..

Just sepoy rush and follow up with sowar. India wins if they force dutch to stay age 2.

[lemmings121]

When i'm dutch i'm always happy to see a musket rush, where I can deffend with 5 skirms taking 0 dmg..

[[Armag] diarouga]

From my experience, that's 50/50.
India can't win by rushing. Skirm+walls just hold, they can't play in age 2, the timing isn't strong enough to punish the age 3 and they can't semi ff safely.

[gibson]

If you have building rotator mod you can just use all your buildings to make a wall plus actual walls and just do 10skirm semi ff

[Jaeger]

Yeah, and even age 3 vs age 3, india destroys dutch. Just cant slowroll it in age 2 like the guy yesterday tho

But I dont think getting age3 is that easy as india, is it? their standard semi is kinda slow/awkward..

I dont think the way marechal played is that bad, he tried to have a bigger mass (with better micro and the 2 camel upgrade cards, could have worked imo), instead of agging, since agging leads to a smaller army, and some long time before all veterans upgrades gets done..

Maybe an india semi, starting with Karni? idk, I havent met with many dutch players to try stuff out..

Ive tried the 600w 300e long colonial vs semi ff civs a lot and it doesnt work at all if the other guy plays well. Its just so easy for him to outmass your skirms, and age 3 goons or ryuters rape your low hp sowars.

Vs dutch I do the h2o ff (600w 300e trickle) and maybe make 1-2 additional sepoy to defend against the 5 cav. If you get some really good xp treasures or are on a high livestock map, you can ship 600g instead of the trickle for faster age but otherwise it comes too late. Also, this might not work if you have only 1 mine in your base. Its probably harder to win this way than with a sepoy rush, but its more enjoyable and more of a challange. Also, if he does rax start you dont have to make sepoy, instead of shipping 5 and making 5 you can make 5 ghurka and ship 4 sowar first.

Im not sure about the rush tho, Ive only ever done the semi.

[Mr_Bramboy]

I personally go for a full karni semi (300e 600w 600c) with all market upgrades and then win in fortress by denying Dutch the map.

[Jaeger]

I personally go for a full karni semi (300e 600w 600c) with all market upgrades and then win in fortress by denying Dutch the map.

10/10 karni? What''s your age time to fortress and when do you make a TP?

[Mr_Bramboy]

I personally go for a full karni semi (300e 600w 600c) with all market upgrades and then win in fortress by denying Dutch the map.

10/10 karni? Whats your age time to fortress and when do you make a TP?

Slow karni with 4 vills on the wonder. TP from 600w' ageup time is between 9:00 - 10:00 (which is fast enough vs Dutch)

[bart331]

Really,

Letting dutch mass banks and go safely age3 is not ur dream scenario. Go full aggro age2 imo, by keeping pressure up india eco will slowly overtake dutch and dutch will not be able to age. Dutch has no answer to india in age2

[lemmings121]

Really,

Letting dutch mass banks and go safely age3 is not ur dream scenario. Go full aggro age2 imo, by keeping pressure up india eco will slowly overtake dutch and dutch will not be able to age. Dutch has no answer to india in age2

uhm.. I tend to agree that leaving him up unharmed is bad, but..

idk how to actually deny the age up (srly, wall, bank, tc fire, 5-10skirm) and gg, he''s in fortress with 9ryuter card against your sowar.

[momuuu]

Lemmings vs bart gogo.

All points on bart.

But yeah, Id fully agree with Bart here.

[zoom]

India is like Dutch but better in almost all aspects and has the skirm lancer goon composition in fortress with 3 upgrades.

Indians Dutch confirmed.

Dutch East-India Company, I guess...

[zoom]

There's one optimal way of playing this MU as Indians: 12 Sepoy rush. Adapt from there. It should give Dutch a hard time.

[gibson]

There''s one optimal way of playing this MU as Indians: 12 Sepoy rush. Adapt from there. It should give Dutch a hard time.

No that''s horse shit. 5 skirm and maybe ship eight pikes or minut men to deal with retard explorers. Sepoys rush so easy to counter when you have age two skirm

[zoom]

You'd think so..

Adapt. 4 Sowars are pretty good against Skirmishers.

[bart331]

I doubt 5 skirm even 1 shot a sepoy...

Idk, seems with sowar and eles you can beat it to me, at least u force dutch to stay age2. Late age2 no way dutch can win