dutch vs india

[zoom]

15x2x5=150<180

[momuuu]

5 skirm barely one hit a musk. 12 sepoy rush, abuse the two elephant (2 elephants >> 5 skirms) and follow up with sowars. You almost force bank wagon -> 8 pikes which is disastrous for dutch. Then add gurka and you can prevent the age up.

[Mitoe]

I think I could beat this 12 sepoy shenanigans with Dutch on any of the ESOC maps if anyone wants to play right now ') I'm bored

[momuuu]

Its not a 12 sepoy all in. Its just aggression. If you can trade dutch cant really age up anymore. And you force the bank wagon 8 pikes build I think, which is a small disaster for dutch. After that it becomes harder and harder for the dutch player to age while your advantage grows. When they age you can just follow them and win, but you can prbably also win via a timing push. Thats just my impression of it at least

[lemmings121]

I think I could beat this 12 sepoy shenanigans with Dutch on any of the ESOC maps if anyone wants to play right now ') I''m bored

I also think you can... how would you play india in this mu?

[Goodspeed]

Its not a 12 sepoy all in. Its just aggression. If you can trade dutch cant really age up anymore.

You can''t trade. 12 sepoy rush with an eco or fortress transition is one of the easiest builds to age up against. 6 skirms, some walls and see you in fortress

Beware of that 4 sowar follow up though. Should be okay if you queue skirms and send pikes then cancel at the last second if they don''t send sowar.

[zoom]

I think I could beat this 12 sepoy shenanigans with Dutch on any of the ESOC maps if anyone wants to play right now ') I''m bored

Only if you outplay me. I''d rekt dat mac mcchick...

[momuuu]

Its not a 12 sepoy all in. Its just aggression. If you can trade dutch cant really age up anymore.

They can. 12 sepoy rush with an eco or fortress transition is one of the easiest builds to age up against. 5 skirms, some walls and see you in fortress

but if you do that you lose to a 4 sowar transition. Maybe just 4 sowar 7 sepoy pressure? I only really know this mu from a dutch perspective.

[Goodspeed]

You said it's not all in, 2 military shipments in a row is definitely all in.
Anyway

Should be okay if you queue skirms and send pikes then cancel at the last second if they don't send sowar.

[Mitoe]

I'm not sure that it really forces 8 pike. Good building placement, a batch of 5 skirm then 5 pike with MM and TC fire potential should be more than enough to hold. Maybe even an envoy pop if you're that desperate.

[Goodspeed]

Gotta double wall then
But yeah in the end walls just hold everything, it's kind of dumb.

[Jaeger]

10/10 karni? Whats your age time to fortress and when do you make a TP?

Slow karni with 4 vills on the wonder. TP from 600w' ageup time is between 9:00 - 10:00 (which is fast enough vs Dutch)

And you make stable as soon as u age up fr vs huss? And with no agra dont your vills get raped by 5 skirms the whole time youre aging?

[momuuu]

5 skirms dont one shot a sepoy though. Thats kinda a problem. If 5 skirms plus explorer do onehit them, it might be okay tho.

You can adapt to the degree of walling though. But you cant just let dutch go age 3 whenever theyd like to, thats too dangerous for you imo.

[fei123456]

From my experience, that''s 50/50.
India can''t win by rushing. Skirm+walls just hold, they can''t play in age 2, the timing isn''t strong enough to punish the age 3 and they can''t semi ff safely.

with some lag it''s 100/0. india wins ofc.

[[Armag] diarouga]

From my experience, thats 50/50.
India cant win by rushing. Skirm+walls just hold, they cant play in age 2, the timing isnt strong enough to punish the age 3 and they cant semi ff safely.

with some lag its 100/0. india wins ofc.

No, wall and hold the rush with only 5 skirms.

[fei123456]

with some lag its 100/0. india wins ofc.

No, wall and hold the rush with only 5 skirms.

but how can you deal with a 3 hussar 4 sowar 10 tiger claw 30 sepoy timing? dutch reach age 3 just then but their units are too few. and with some lag india will win 100%.

[deleted_user0]

Yesterday on ro16 stream there was a dutch vs india game, where the chat all agreed that India destroys, annihilates and obliterates dutch at same lvl of play...?
And I disagree, imo it''s dutch favored...?


what do you guys think?

I knew this thread would come... Damn u @musketjr

[momuuu]

Btw, is that Dutch vs India game uploaded on youtube yet? I want to watch it

[lemmings121]

Yesterday on ro16 stream there was a dutch vs india game, where the chat all agreed that India destroys, annihilates and obliterates dutch at same lvl of play...
And I disagree, imo its dutch favored...


what do you guys think?

I knew this thread would come... Damn u @musketjr

what do you mean?
Apparently GS and mitoe also disagree that india is far favored over dutch, and that the 12 sepoy rush that people sugest is bs..

[bart331]

Its like any india matchup, no matchup sepoy rush is considered good by anyone, but in the end when ppl complain about india it is about sepoy laming....

On paper you can kill anything

[zoom]

12 Sepoy is the optimal build in plenty of MUs. I don't know what you consider "rush" though.

[zoom]

Btw, is that Dutch vs India game uploaded on youtube yet? I want to watch it

You don''t really, but IDK if it is.

[deleted_user0]

I knew this thread would come... Damn u @musketjr

what do you mean?
Apparently GS and mitoe also disagree that india is far favored over dutch, and that the 12 sepoy rush that people sugest is bs..

12 sepoy rush does suck in that mu, which afaik is all that gs and mitoe say. Dutch should beat sepoy rush, they shouldnt beat india

[Garja]

it's probably one of those MUs where india can just semi without weird builds. And that's because 4 bank semi is sort of slow + dutch don't have cannons or hand cav shipments.

[_DB_]

Dutch should beat sepoy rush, they shouldnt beat india

^^
That''s right.

or maybe Dutch shouldn''t beat sepoy rush, but they should beat India.