Musk + Huss

[pecelot]

Why is musk + huss strategy viable only for France and Britain? To be honest I haven't really seen any other civ doing that, having in mind mostly Spain and Portugal. Of course we have early aggressions from Ottomans, but I feel like it's a different kind of stuff. Is it so common for Brits and French only because they have strong ecos backing them up? Brits also benefit from HC upgrades for both musks and huss in colonial, France however doesn't have that possibility. Russia seem to be doing well at that too. Is creating vills faster and having more map control with blockhouses the reason for that?
I know that both Portugal and Spain have decent fortress options with Mamelukes timing and falconets shipment respectively, but is it the only reason? I know that they can apply some pressure with xbow + pike composition, but musk + huss is stronger, Ports furthermore have 6 musks shipment available.
I'm aware that Portugese player has to put a lot of effort to boom, it means that plenty of food has to be sunk into making vills, but wouldn't such shipments as 700w, 700f, 6 musks and even 600f be viable? With colonial attacks one would also have more map control, which means more access to hunts and that's important especially as Ports. I heard that it's absolutely doable, but it's just not so common because people prefer to go semi-FF.
I'd love to see some thoughts about these colonial builds and I hope that you guys will give me some advice!

[Jaeger]

Actually spain bow pike rush is pretty good, it's just that bow pike rush isn't so common. But musk huss with spain just sucks, even if you age with 500f

[edeholland]

Well France doesn't really have another option in age besides from xbow/pike. It's difficult to make wood+gold+food units so that's also not ideal. And huss are great for raiding/tanking damage while musks do damage and are good for siege. It's the best combination out there in age 2. In French mirror, usually musk/huss wins from xbow/pike. For Brits is same story, but they also have 4 upgrade cards in age 2. They can make musk/huss OP (even when you have only 2/3 cards). Longbows are good ofc but not in every situation. Also musk+huss usually beats xbow+huss, but I haven't seen/played that enough.

Other civs have much more FF potential, like ports with mames and spain with falcs/lancers. Brits usually stay in age 2 much longer and France against some civs also.

[_DB_]

whos gonna bow pike rush as spain nigga, we just appreciating lame ff

[pecelot]

Well France doesn''t really have another option in age besides from xbow/pike. It''s difficult to make wood+gold+food units so that''s also not ideal.

France has nice fortress builds with upgradable skirms and goons, cuirs and 2 falcs shipment, and they still sometimes stay in colonial so I just wondered why. I''m not sure what you mean with food + wood + gold composition, I didn''t reffer to anything like that.

[edeholland]

Well France doesnt really have another option in age besides from xbow/pike. Its difficult to make wood+gold+food units so thats also not ideal.

France has nice fortress builds with upgradable skirms and goons, cuirs and 2 falcs shipment, and they still sometimes stay in colonial so I just wondered why. Im not sure what you mean with food + wood + gold composition, I didnt reffer to anything like that.

Yes, they are good in fortress, usually they go to fortress also. Just saying that if they stay age 2, they are best of making musk+huss. And xbow+musk+huss is food+gold+wood composition, thats why they dont often make those 3 units.

[pecelot]

My main question was why other civs like Ports and Spain don't choose to go colonial musks + huss instead of heading up to fortress.
I think French musk + huss involves some xbows mixing as well. 700w, 4 CDBs, 600w for maybe 2 houses and 2 batches of xbows and then 8 xbows shipment.

[Jaeger]

France has nice fortress builds with upgradable skirms and goons, cuirs and 2 falcs shipment, and they still sometimes stay in colonial so I just wondered why. Im not sure what you mean with food + wood + gold composition, I didnt reffer to anything like that.

Yes, they are good in fortress, usually they go to fortress also. Just saying that if they stay age 2, they are best of making musk+huss. And xbow+musk+huss is food+gold+wood composition, thats why they dont often make those 3 units.

It being harder to macro is not rlly a good reason to not make it. Germany makes xbow pike uhlan dopp in age 2

[drumal]

In 1v1 games I dont like FF so I go musk + huss almost every time as spain.. maybe thats why Im only serg

[Mr_Bramboy]

Spain doesn't have a fast ageup politician to fortress which basically forces them to FF since any other civ can just play colonial and age up in the back of it which creates a timing window for the opponent to win the game. Ports can really only support musk huss from 2 rax and 1 stable at 7-8 minutes because they have to make vills out of two town centers.

[pecelot]

Yeah, I understand, but why is French and British musk + huss so superior to Portugal's and Spain's ones?

[_venox_]

France has the best early game economy in the game and the British have a strong boom and upgrade cards, as already mentioned. The Portuguese can go for musk huss with something like 300w spice trade 700w 700g 8bow and go for a timing, setting up their eco and getting market upgrades and age later with 600g or by gathering it. It needs a lot of food though and is weaker than the French or British version.
With enough hunts on the map however they have a better economy and a higher army count (in my experience) than France has after 12 minutes but before that you need to know how to defend with fewer units.

Spain just lacks the fast age up politician and the 400 wood politician so it has to gather a lot of wood in transition. It just is that Spain wants to age up or go for early aggression with xbow pike in colonial, so they rarely go for musk huss.
What you could do however is to get an early market and a trading post and a house in transition and send 700w for 2 military buildings and 3 houses followed by 5 vill 4 vill 600w 700c musk huss. Or you don't build the tp and drop a building after you aged up if you need units out quickly.
Spain doesn't have the good early game economy like France's or a good boom and upgrade cards like the British have and lack good army cards and aging up can get awkward. Spain musk huss is like a weaker version of France with inferior cards and a slightly worse economy.

[Einfein]

Is it so common for Brits and French only because they have strong ecos backing them up?

I know when I play brits the added eco helps immensely. Whereas when I play ports I''m strugging for resources early.

[macacoalbino]

I guess it all comes down to the timings. With these civs you don't get a really strong timing at the same time as french or brits. And if you go for colonial play with, say, a 10 min timing you either lose to these stronger earlier pushes or you lose to a stronger fortress composition that had time to be mounted. Against fortress play you could time it a bit earlier to make it viable, but they won't be as strong as other civs.