What's most efficienct russian startup? Most troops age 2?

[nickiru]

I have been experimenting with Russians in TAD and am trying to figure out the quickest age 2 and having the most strelets/muskets by 7 minutes while maintaining continuous villager production.

The only step toward sperfection that I have made recently is using the 'advanced trading post' (ATP) card. Seriously, rather than getting wood or food or saving the card 'till age 2, I get ATP. What happens: I age 10 seconds slower but still have a floating card enerting age 2 like as if I didn't do ATP at all. Therefore I get cards faster and I at least get a card upon enetring age 2 like usual games without ATP. Just 10 seconds slower age up (because I put all my villies on a tree for a few seconds to get 120 wood for TP.)

Tp also gets a gun and more health so they can't just be raided to death. Hogs territory, or nice when bundled with your central blockhouse which has a turret.

So I think I got age 1 figured out. The next thing to test is if I want to sacrifice 5 more second of age up for hunting dogs at the market.

_________________________________________

So how many troops can you mass, or have had produced net, by 7 minutes? I'll do a game here after this post and tell you my number. I been doing my testing at Great plains when not being food screwed.

also, how'd you do it? which cards you choose, villager distribution on resources etc...

just curious if there was a stream lined professional way to start up and mass troops too.

thanks... sry i'm wordy.

[nickiru]

Here's some data:

Using ATP: I get my tp started being made at 2:30 with 300fd spare resources.

If I age 2 with 17 villagers, having a second tp, a blockhouse in the middle of the map (and aging for 400w for housing and strelet costs):::

at 7 minute: I got 20 strelets, with 5 cossacks (from second card upon entry of age 2 or 10 seconds after), 700f from third card RIGHT after cossaks arrive, and 10 strelets 50% complete train time in blockhouse. while having 20 villagers with 3 villies 50% complete. I also have a 4th card just available at 7min for whatever I choose (usually 700w or 700c depends on enemy civ).

I also ONLY purchased the first wood and first hunting upgrade at the market by 7 minute.

This is my typical start up. actually I could have done a sliver better, was a bit late in blockhouse but whatever. This is typical so I am assuming standard error accumulations.

how fast are you guys? what could I do better?
At 10 minute I have 40 strelet, 25 musket, 5 cossak, and 32 villagers.

[fei123456]

if you really wanna max unit at 7:00, just 5-4-13 or 700f first. but russia is not an early civ.
the problem is, russian late colonial is strong, but you also need some units to prevent your opponent from aging up easily. and it's very difficult to balance eco and army in early games.
you can watch some recs of darwin giovanny. in many cases he just 5-4-13 rush, but still upgrade the hunting dog and keep training vills (so he doesnt train units constantly). and after his shipment units lost he has got a decent eco. you can also call this a semi rush.
another choice is a timing. such as 700w 700g. but as russia only have 14-17 vills in early game and cannot produce units from 2 military buildings. and your opponent can reach age 3 without lose anything, and get ready for your timing.
i agree with spadel that "russia is a rush civ". russian eco is similar to port's but port has a far better age 3. so you have to give your opponent pressure in early game. russia 700w 700g 5cossack timing is nothing special: many other civ can have a better timing. but you cant stop your vill production for too long. hmm its really a tough work. i prefer 5cos 4cos 700w or 5cos 700w.
and i suggest that the new fp should give russia 1-2 extra starting vills. why should russia has 5 vills only? "civ diversity"?

[fei123456]

tpboom is good in some cases. you can also send 300w first. but your opponent is not an idiol. anyway russian early eco is so weak. you can tpboom ofc but its hard to defend your tp.

[Mr_Bramboy]

700f 700w 5 cossack 4 cossack 13 strelet

[britishmusketeer]

Tp boom is good. I would only send atp if there are 4 or more tps you can get though. Also you don't want to start building tps until you click up to age 2.

[fei123456]

700f 700w 5 cossack 4 cossack 13 strelet

i think this timing is some late. you cant stop your opponent from aging up with that. and other civs can also do a 700w 700g 8xbow/3hussar/6longbow timing and have more units than russia.

[nickiru]

if you really wanna max unit at 7:00, just 5-4-13 or 700f first. but russia is not an early civ.
the problem is, russian late colonial is strong, but you also need some units to prevent your opponent from aging up easily. and it''s very difficult to balance eco and army in early games.
you can watch some recs of darwin giovanny. in many cases he just 5-4-13 rush, but still upgrade the hunting dog and keep training vills (so he doesnt train units constantly). and after his shipment units lost he has got a decent eco. you can also call this a semi rush.
another choice is a timing. such as 700w 700g. but as russia only have 14-17 vills in early game and cannot produce units from 2 military buildings. and your opponent can reach age 3 without lose anything, and get ready for your timing.
i agree with spadel that "russia is a rush civ". russian eco is similar to port''s but port has a far better age 3. so you have to give your opponent pressure in early game. russia 700w 700g 5cossack timing is nothing special: many other civ can have a better timing. but you cant stop your vill production for too long. hmm its really a tough work. i prefer 5cos 4cos 700w or 5cos 700w.
and i suggest that the new fp should give russia 1-2 extra starting vills. why should russia has 5 vills only? "civ diversity"?

Wow, watched Darwin Giovanni against Monkey Magic, that was very interesting. Thanks for that info.

I tend to age with 14 villagers, but it depends on enemy civ speed.

_______________

I use ATP if there are at least 2 tp sites I can access easily (my half of map and a middle one as well.) Cause that saves me at least 120w and I get that card back before age 2 anyways so It''s like I lost nothing but 10 seconds of age time. and then I reap the benefits of having the TPs.

But yes the 5,4 cossak and then resources I like that. Don''t have to build a stable so it in an indirect way saves me 200 wood. (of course I do 5 cossaks first, the next card being 4 cossaks is what I was unsure about.)

[fei123456]

if you really wanna max unit at 7:00, just 5-4-13 or 700f first. but russia is not an early civ.
the problem is, russian late colonial is strong, but you also need some units to prevent your opponent from aging up easily. and its very difficult to balance eco and army in early games.
you can watch some recs of darwin giovanny. in many cases he just 5-4-13 rush, but still upgrade the hunting dog and keep training vills (so he doesnt train units constantly). and after his shipment units lost he has got a decent eco. you can also call this a semi rush.
another choice is a timing. such as 700w 700g. but as russia only have 14-17 vills in early game and cannot produce units from 2 military buildings. and your opponent can reach age 3 without lose anything, and get ready for your timing.
i agree with spadel that "russia is a rush civ". russian eco is similar to ports but port has a far better age 3. so you have to give your opponent pressure in early game. russia 700w 700g 5cossack timing is nothing special: many other civ can have a better timing. but you cant stop your vill production for too long. hmm its really a tough work. i prefer 5cos 4cos 700w or 5cos 700w.
and i suggest that the new fp should give russia 1-2 extra starting vills. why should russia has 5 vills only? "civ diversity"?

Wow, watched Darwin Giovanni against Monkey Magic, that was very interesting. Thanks for that info.

I tend to age with 14 villagers, but it depends on enemy civ speed.

_______________

I use ATP if there are at least 2 tp sites I can access easily (my half of map and a middle one as well.) Cause that saves me at least 120w and I get that card back before age 2 anyways so Its like I lost nothing but 10 seconds of age time. and then I reap the benefits of having the TPs.

But yes the 5,4 cossak and then resources I like that. Dont have to build a stable so it in an indirect way saves me 200 wood. (of course I do 5 cossaks first, the next card being 4 cossaks is what I was unsure about.)

i would never send atp if i only have two tps. wood trickle has 1.25w/s, and produce 120w in only 96 secs: less than 2 min. and it only need 4 mins to produce 300w too. thats why i dont agree with goodspeeds 300w bo: you will never finish your game before 6 mins.

[nickiru]

That's a very good point about wood trickle. Interesting...

[nickiru]

that video I saw of Darwin Giovanni also used wood trickle. I'll experiment with it

[Hazza54321]

Wow, watched Darwin Giovanni against Monkey Magic, that was very interesting. Thanks for that info.

I tend to age with 14 villagers, but it depends on enemy civ speed.

_______________

I use ATP if there are at least 2 tp sites I can access easily (my half of map and a middle one as well.) Cause that saves me at least 120w and I get that card back before age 2 anyways so Its like I lost nothing but 10 seconds of age time. and then I reap the benefits of having the TPs.

But yes the 5,4 cossak and then resources I like that. Dont have to build a stable so it in an indirect way saves me 200 wood. (of course I do 5 cossaks first, the next card being 4 cossaks is what I was unsure about.)

i would never send atp if i only have two tps. wood trickle has 1.25w/s, and produce 120w in only 96 secs: less than 2 min. and it only need 4 mins to produce 300w too. thats why i dont agree with goodspeeds 300w bo: you will never finish your game before 6 mins.

yes but once youve uppd tps then you get more than 2.5v worth of a wood tricle, plus the buy time with their high hp, aswell as att

[[Armag] diarouga]

700g/5coss/4coss is a better 7min timing than 700f/5coss/4coss

[fei123456]

i would never send atp if i only have two tps. wood trickle has 1.25w/s, and produce 120w in only 96 secs: less than 2 min. and it only need 4 mins to produce 300w too. thats why i dont agree with goodspeeds 300w bo: you will never finish your game before 6 mins.

yes but once youve uppd tps then you get more than 2.5v worth of a wood tricle, plus the buy time with their high hp, aswell as att

if you wanna tp just chop for them

[Hazza54321]

yes but once youve uppd tps then you get more than 2.5v worth of a wood tricle, plus the buy time with their high hp, aswell as att

if you wanna tp just chop for them

for an age 1 shipment, saving 80w per tp, and having 3375hp outpost is pretty good especially on a map like high plains or tibet

[nickiru]

if you wanna tp just chop for them

for an age 1 shipment, saving 80w per tp, and having 3375hp outpost is pretty good especially on a map like high plains or tibet

Dont forget the tp gets a 25dmg gun too so they in a sense hog some territory. And that first card burnt is replaced almost immediately' as if you didnt use the ATP card at all so you can still get the wood trickle and profit more. I like it, pure benefits except the undeniable 10 second delay to age up.

but the health boost and gun addition makes the tps safe unless the enemy wants to commit, which then you can defend it with troops with turret support blalblablblalallblblalb etc misc trash

What I have been doing, on maps like yukon and mongolia where the tps are so close together and there are many, I merge my base with those tps for gun protection. So now the tps hybrid with outposts to protect my villagers from raids. Thats saving a load of wood' replacing walls and outposts. It assists town defense!

This tactic failed against an aztec (arrow knights). since one cant exactly culverin arrow knights... (GGAAAHHH, still made him struggle!!)

But i dont know how to beat eagle runner/arrow knight/coyote runner army in third age with russia. Thats a bear. I needed my dopps.

[japanesegeneral]

The following BO is a troll one but i am not sure if it might ever work since i havent tested it yet. Russia 5/10 since u already start with 600 food u only need to collect 200f (which will take like forever with only 5 vills). If it is a 200 wood start build a Tp otherwise just resign. Age up with 500 f. And send 700f 700w before ur opponent reaches collonial. You could even trie to fishboom(with schooners instead of 700f) at the back of it to catch up in terms of eco. Or go for 5 cav units to delay his barracks and stuff. Gl doing it.

[yemshi]

The following BO is a troll one but i am not sure if it might ever work since i havent tested it yet. Russia 5/10 since u already start with 600 food u only need to collect 200f (which will take like forever with only 5 vills). If it is a 200 wood start build a Tp otherwise just resign. Age up with 500 f. And send 700f 700w before ur opponent reaches collonial. You could even trie to fishboom(with schooners instead of 700f) at the back of it to catch up in terms of eco. Or go for 5 cav units to delay his barracks and stuff. Gl doing it.

Only viable if you are on deccan etc...
And even then: Gathering crates will take some time, so you can 8/10. Don''t build a TP/market and build BH with starting wood. Age 500f and send 700w or age 400w and send 700f.

[_tank]

you are going to want 8 vill age up not 5 vill. not that much slower (if at all) + still no house

[Rikikipu]

I guess you need to watch "Shipment or shitment" on esoc youtube channel

[[Armag] diarouga]

Most standard russian build is age 14, market+up food+bh while aging. With 400w build TP+house+2nd food up, send 5 coss, then 700w to build houses+2nd BH+stable and then 700g/4coss for the timing.

[Hazza54321]

Most standard russian build is age 14, market+up food+bh while aging. With 400w build TP+house+2nd food up, send 5 coss, then 700w to build houses+2nd BH+stable and then 700g/4coss for the timing.

that sums up 90% of russian games.